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burn_Stone



Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:44 pm    Post subject: burning_men Reply with quote

Hey Persian,
I saw the film, however all says the film has no value for watching, its true
actually more than that I can see a film I see some burning man (Director, Producer, ...) that couldn't hide their spites

the openion of ordinary men has no value and the wise people just see this film very funny, that how a man can burn

I surprised how these men let to insult WEST peoples, yes it was more an insult to west people, while I respect to the history of all people, nations west and east, but they expend milion $ to show hey "see us how we are foolish"
I'm sorry but it was an insult to theirself, I didn't see anything more from this film, the spites of the producer that obviously is shown doesn't let a good film
actualy it has no value than this, but every time that I see it ,I laugh to their thoughts and see them burning is intresting (sorry)
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lardvaark



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 169
Location: Southampton, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:14 am    Post subject: Burn burn_stone Reply with quote

Hey
Us alls saw the film, we say the value IS for watching, is true also, not all can be right, what's going there then?
The spites of the men are not be seen either. What are you saying spites of? Is there implying of you that a wrongness of historical characters in place due to director unhappiness problems and such?

Is you ordineiry men? If that is then your opinion is no value. Bad luck. Us wise people more see your post as funny than the film, as terble English completely in hiding of what you try to say. And knowings of history seems as bad as English! Every time I try to read you message, I laugh to your thoughts. Sorry.
You expend minute$ to show hey " see how I talk utter b******s". Hope you is not insulted of a WEST person!
L xx
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Pipsqueak



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 141
Location: West Midlands, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one Lardvaark - you crack me up! Laughing
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burn_Stone



Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you are speak with a Persian

1- the subject is not English, my English can be bad

2- even I be an ordinary man (not men) and my thoughts be laughable for someone, and waste some minutes its very better that I produce a film, distribute it between miliard people show some spites and they laugh me

3- if you want be logical, its not your fail, I don't condemn West people, I said sorry, I know it is a film and more the fail of its producer, director and etc, whether or not you accept it, it is laughable and even many west people say it, smallest spite decrease the value of a film

4- all know if you say "hey see me how I am good", wise people laugh you (my mean is producer), even it is a distortion of history, he fired the Perspolis, he looted the Perspolis, some historian says not only he killed his friend but sacrifice thousand people for the soul of his friend,
he caused some hates, after him (about 70 years later) that Parthian freed Iran, always West and East were fighting, and when I hear "he wants to close east and west", what can I do unless laughing Laughing,

5- when the narrator says "why he married with a simple woman, and etc. Laughing , however Roxane has no much relation to me, and suppose we don't know the real story, but being so selfish, excuse me cause some wise people laugh you and think what is it your weakness, being selfish show some weakness and excuse me foolishness

6- they show Persian like Arabs, and show their capital Babylon, however
we Persian know it is a big spite, but they count miliard ordinary men that know nothing and watch the film, this is a nasty and laughable job

7- even know Persian women are from the beautiful women in the world, I suppose they are not, but when they use Angelia Jolie as the Macedonia Queen, and that woman as Persian Woman with that behavior, whether it be true or not (that absolutely wrong for the wife of one of KING OF KINGS for 230 years) wise people laugh you, these are the basic course of morality and psychology

8- when they try to show Persian such, when they had the Zarathustra the founder of morality, the Cyrus the Great that declares the first charter of Human rights, wise people laugh you

9- anyway i'm glad that even they don't know how tell lie, so people don't laugh and beleive
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mOoK



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 233
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

we have very different ideas so let's juz chill u can say whateva u like it wont change out opinion bout this movie. it still be the greatest anyway. Rolling Eyes however nobody knows what it was like i mean GET REAL it was thousands years ago man juz let it go. people love this movie n its not depend on whether u like it o not.
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Adriv



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1144
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mOoK wrote:
we have very different ideas so let's juz chill u can say whateva u like it wont change out opinion bout this movie. it still be the greatest anyway. Rolling Eyes however nobody knows what it was like i mean GET REAL it was thousands years ago man juz let it go. people love this movie n its not depend on whether u like it o not.


I agree with you Mook, nicely said.
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burn_Stone



Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mOoK wrote:
we have very different ideas so let's juz chill u can say whateva u like it wont change out opinion bout this movie. it still be the greatest anyway. Rolling Eyes however nobody knows what it was like i mean GET REAL it was thousands years ago man juz let it go. people love this movie n its not depend on whether u like it o not.


I said about spites, and said they decrease the value of a film, also its depend to me, because its related to Persian history, you are a thailandian
if I want make a film that has relation to thailand and with obvious spite and unreal matters try to distort the history for example say thailandian are some foolish people, firt just I showed my foolishness, second maybe me and many others love that movie, I like to know what is your openion?
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halfaery



Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 107
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

burn_Stone: I see your point and I think it´s ok to defend what you feel is important to you. But burning such a talented director, no....

Besides, I always get a good laughter (and some sad feeling too) when I see a reference to Finland in any foreign movie or TV serie. Laughing
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burn_Stone



Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

halfaery,
thank you, my point was that, when Persia and Greece are two ancient country and even you know middle east is the cradle of civilization and the origin of morality religions like Judaism and Zoroastrianism, and also about Persian we know they were Aryan, not Arab (however I respect Arabs), and know the Cyrus the Great is the most tolerant kings of the history or Darius the Great that established and managed the Great Empire of Persia or Xerxes the Great and ..., or we know still the philosophy of Indian is from amazing philosephy of the world and know the Great Greek philosopher, we dont need to show small the rival, yes Darius III was a weak Emperer and had some bad mistake and Alexander the Great is from the most talented General of the history, but we know he fascinated to Persian Culture and its people and also anyway he fired the Perspolis and looted it, and killed his friend and as some says sacrifice some peoples I mean anyway he was a cruel man, yes if someone don't like to show these matters, OK, maybe he was regret and inherentally he was a good man, but also as I said they do not need to show some spite against the rival, you know what I say, even I surprised, because the words or behavior of the narrator or the scenario was not gentle more like a selfish man that much envey to history of Iraq, Iran, India, as I said I like Greeks but such actions is a loss for themself,
and laughable and symptom of weakness of producer, I don't condemn the whole of the Film but I think some words or behevior or scene was unnecessary and was strange for me, for example where he points all India is a legend, even I didn't find they want to show Greeks, racist or some words was some messages or other matters that I said above

I don't know these Director, but in this film from my view point he showed some spites and weakness, yes film can be attractive as a dream and may be intresting for Europeans and a Thilandian woman but I pointed that I dont know the reaosn of some spites and distortion, they wanted increase awesome of Greeks and decrease the awesome of Persia for miliard ordinary men, but as I said show some spite and envey (I don't know why) but wise people laugh to them

anyway I am not worry about it and laugh to their spites, and thanks god they showed themself, and treat like beginners Laughing
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mOoK



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 233
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

burn_Stone wrote:
for example say thailandian are some foolish people, firt just I showed my foolishness, second maybe me and many others love that movie, I like to know what is your openion?


first thing first i'm "THAI" Duddddde not "Thailandian" Cool u wanna kno wha i think? yeah i'll tell ya... if it's a gr8 movie of coz i'll like it i mean, dun b so small! the history of my country.. well interesting.. coz i dunno what reely happened it was like hundreds yrs ago, who cares. Rolling Eyes if they make a movie and it says that Thai were foolish well there's nufin i can do bout dat, rite? coz mayb we reely were or mayb we weren't. it depends on which side u choose to look. if u believe that ur people were not foolish then y do u care? it's not that OS insulting u guys or anything but that's just the way he think of the history. like i said depends on how u choose to look. if u choose to look negative then it cant b gewd. but if u try 2 look positive, like, it's just a movie mayb u can just sit there n enjoy da movie. one last thing i got ur point n u hv every rite 2 tell how u feel n so do i. i juz wanna let u know how i feel n dats all. Smile so... u dig it?? Question
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burn_Stone



Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mOok,
I think I and We should distinct some matters

1- the director want it be a chimerical film or on some real basics
2- I don't know what was exactly handred years ago, but it not a reason that I don't judge regarding to closest result and argues, for example can I say 2000 years ago Egyptiean build Thailand while there is no evidence about it, and also some paradox is obvious
the sculpture of Persian King with Crown and Splundor now exist, why I shoul an unreal things unless to show my spites

3- maybe I don't care the real story, but why I point spites, it is your decide, for example I can show a beautiful woman for Thai Queen in my film or use the uggliest person that I know, maybe it's be true you say who knows, you don't want I use a blonde woman but a normal Thai anyway I show my spite,

4- there is some obvious messages, yes anyone want to say I was good, why people should going to meet Alexander and he fire their city, onething is wrong, why as they say 250,000 should be in Persian army and after defeating they go to meet, it has some spite messages, and many others point that I say you later, YOU WANT BE LOGICAL PERSON AND SEE THE truths about a film or you want be dreamist
it has no relation whether I have positive or negetive view

5- as I said I suppose I don't know the history of Thai, what is wrong about me to call them foolish

6- my purpose is obvious and as I said as a legend film like Troy it can be good but from many other aspects it has some messages that people dont get them and laugh to them

NO,No I can't regret these obvious and unnecessary spites unless I suppose OS was a burning man, beginner man, very simple, dreamist,...
Select one
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mOoK



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 233
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mOoK wrote:
we have very different ideas so let's juz chill u can say whateva u like it wont change out opinion bout this movie. it still be the greatest anyway. Rolling Eyes however nobody knows what it was like i mean GET REAL it was thousands years ago man juz let it go. people love this movie n its not depend on whether u like it o not.


still, i stand 4 wha i wrote. r we done now?
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girard



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:49 pm    Post subject: To burn_stone Reply with quote

burn_stone,

I'm not going to try and change your mind about your feeling toward the film. You've pretty much summed up why you didn't like it. However, if you would allow me to help you look at a couple of things not mentioned yet, maybe we could understand one another a little better (east & west.)

True, east and west are different, and the cultures and *** in entertainment are probably very different from one another which might explain why a film could be popular in one part of the world and not as liked in another.

With ALEXANDER, I don't feel that Oliver Stone had any type of anti-middle eastern agenda to push, I think he just wanted to make a film about Alexander the Great. Of, course to do this, one would have to rely on the history books and any consultants one would need to make a film like this. As an American film-maker, Stone obviously wouldn't be an expert on this subject matter, he would have to hire those who were to make the movie, agreed?

Now, with Alexander the Great, one problem is that the history was written by Greeks, at least what survived to the Romans and into European history, and translated into English, etc. So, the material in itself can seem biased toward the Greek or "western" view of what happened. Ghengis Khan, for instance may be revered in parts of Asia down through history, but would be looked back on as a scourge to Europeans. Alexander is similar in this regard, we know that he isn't praised in the east. it depends on where someone may be from as to how they feel about a famous history figure. All we can do is to try to learn the truth about another part of the world as grow older.

Now with Alexander, true, he burned Persepolis and his men did loot it. He also destryoed Thebes back in Greece when they revolted against him (the movie did mention about Thebes.) Stone doesn't try to show him as a perfect ruler, of course he was not, he had a temper, and reacted violently at times, and there were disastrous events like the march back through the Gedrosian desert which the film showed as well. Of, course everything couldn't be shown or we would have had a movie much longer than 3 hours and no one would see it.

With Roxanne's character, yes, she was from Soghdiana Bactria, which meant if he (Stone) wanted to be totally authentic, it would require him casting a girl from modern day Afghanistan or Tajikistan. That might be difficult. I'm just guessing here, but, Stone probably just chose Rosario Dawson for her acting capabilities, not so much because of her looks. I don't think Stone has anti-eastern feelings, I just think he is a film-maker and that is his business or craft.

Now, turning to a positive side, I know you disagree with his potrayel of the Persian culture, but think about this. In America, and a good deal of the west, I'm sure people are pretty ignorant about Persian history. There just hasn't been a lot of exposure to it in western education. I'll admit, this is wrong and should be changed. Just not that many people in the west have learned about Cyrus the Great, Artaxerxes Ochus, & Darius I.
Hopefully, in time they will become more educated about Persian history.

I think one positive about the film, is that in seeing the beauty of eastern cultures shown on the screen, it may attract young Americans or many young westerners to the beauties of the cultures in the east. Let's be honest, some of the younger generation would go see a movie like ALEXANDER before they may sit down and read a book. At least, if they are attracted by what they see on the screen, they may try to go study the true history of ancient events. I feel it's better to bring them to the screen with today's technology, than to let them be forgotten altogeher. That would be the true tragedy.

You said you cared little of the film, well I have an idea. Instead of just being angry toward the director, who probably didn't intend the film for spite or to offend you as an eastern person, let's use the topics of the film to learn more about each other's history. Maybe you can teach a western person who up until this point, didn't know all the truths about the Persian Empire and culture.

In otherwords, let's use the material to educate one another.

Blessings,

Girard
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Leonnatus



Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:43 pm    Post subject: Debate is more important than a movie Reply with quote

Girard I agree. burn stone I have learned a lot from what you have stated here and other contributors also. Historical movies always stimulate debate because they reflect in most if not all cases one point of view.I would like to see a Iranian version of Alexander and Darius and that would also be debated with vigor. I do not speak the language of Iran or Persian which would also be useful in clarifying differing views. Mel Gibson made his movie about Jesus the Christ in the Aramaic language. I would like to see a movie about Alexander and Darius in Ancient Greek and Persian with subtitles naturally. I like Oliver Stone's movie because any movie about Ancient History is worth a look because it can maybe get people to study it more and so better appreciate any artistic work on it. I do not think the Persian viewpoint was accurately or fairly represented in the movie but the treatment of the Greek viewpoint was also not accurate or fair. For example:Perdikkas did not get one line in the movie and Darius got just a few words.
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burn_Stone



Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

girard, Leonnatus
Thank you for your points, and attention to my point, also you know maybe I was offensive to Oliver Stone, but I said Oliver Stone maybe is not west, and I just judge this man
also maybe because some people are sensitive to such films, as you saw about Persians and Greeks, and it is distributed to the world, if a director is fair, and more fettered to reals, and have no spites, then it should be more careful, don't look just himself and west, also the history written by Greeks but we live in the 21 century and more research is done by many historian and also you know even it does not show what greeks say,

with such action, for example fireing Perspolis and also when still the trace of Greeks arrows on body of Darius the Great sculpture (not Darius III shown in Film) its natural that my country people have not any intresting to Alexander, but i don't much speak about it,
it's intresting you know in Iran from many years ago people called Alexander, Eskandar , and still people have this name, and in our Literature we have many point to this man, even we have a book named "Eskandar Nameh" means "the book of Alexander" written by an Iranian poet and philosepher about 700 years ago, mostly they point the desire of Alexander to capture all of the world but what remained for him when he died, and say Alexander in the last minutes of his age much was infeluenced by divine, a man that use all of his effort to capture a world and at last after satisfying this desire that maybe is desire on each of us, he sees nothing has a value, and became a sage
you see even if we pay attention to some direction even regardless of details I think we can make a dramatic film, he was first cruel and suppose wild, and suppose his army were worse, but with his talented mind as a human, distinguish some truths, also first Persian Kings that called themself King of Kings and many of them beleived the uniqe God, and very tolerant established and managed the great empire of Persia and their respect to Nations was their success key, as I said the charter of Cyrus, but the Last kings were weak, cruel, forgetting Ahura Mazda (the God), and actually with great splendore, but these matters cause they be defeated, however some asspects shown in the film but I mean the direction and my direction
I am not a relegious man, but I think these tragedy drams that can be true even we know has more related to real, has more value than, reasonless I say I am good, you say no I am better, we captured, you captured, People didn't like their kings, Alexander didn't fired the Perspolis, Alexander was Hercul, he was from Gentle Greeks (while even he was not greek) , why he married with a simple woman ,his successor should be a greek, he said strongest, not his son and...

I pointed to these direction,
anyway GOOD LUCK, if I was offensive, excuse me
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