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Hephaestion and Alexander's 'relationship'
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Adriv



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1144
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it will be number 2. And another thing too like I said before, he would had been so sad that he probably died not long after Alexander.
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cindoo15



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1282
Location: Dallas TX

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you are right Adriv; he would have been quite miserable after Alexander died. At least he was spared the obvious pain that Alexander went through after he lost Hephaestion. I guess it would have been best for them both to go down in a battle, together.
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SiriusElessar



Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, just signed up for this board, because I just got back from a test screening of the Director's Cut of the film, and let me say I was expecting so much more of the Alexander and Hephaestion relationship in that cut.

It is mentioned/emphasized/payed tribute to more in the DC, but Hephaestion actually gets less screen time, and I expected at least a kiss if not more in the DC, I mean I heard they shot love scenes for the two that weren't used- so where are they?

The scene after Alexander kills Cleitus and he will only see Hephaestion is TOTALLY scrapped, and that was one of the best scenes for them.

Most everything else is the same (for them), except less screen time for Jared.

The one thing that was better regarding them was the higher verbal acknowledgement of their relationship, and some cool symbolsim for them in Alex's redited death scene.

As far as gay overtones in general the DC is tamer, the party scene early on w/ the gay actions is seriously edited, and the little scene w/ the persian boy toy is now much tamer too.....

I think the masses scared Mr. Stone w/ their homophobia....

I just want to know what happened to those love scenes they supposedly shot? Does anyone know? Were they rumors- or are they going to be on the DVD? They're certainly not in the DC......
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Adriv



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1144
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SiriusElessar wrote:

I heard they shot love scenes for the two that weren't used- so where are they?


THEY DID???? Shocked Very Happy Very Happy
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Rachel25



Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only unused sex scenes I've heard about it one that involved Bagoas but they scrapped that and most things to do with Bagoas seeing as they needed to make the film shorter and he was such a minor character to begin with.

But everyone involved in the film seems to maintain that there was never any sex scene between Alexander and Hephaistion shot or intended to be shot.
So either, that's the truth or everyones a liar.
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cindoo15



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1282
Location: Dallas TX

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SiriusElessar wrote:
Hi all, just signed up for this board, because I just got back from a test screening of the Director's Cut of the film, and let me say I was expecting so much more of the Alexander and Hephaestion relationship in that cut.


Welcome to you! Thanks for posting this. Lucky you - I can't wait ANY longer but I am concerned about how the relationship between Alexander and Hephaestion will be portrayed; I, like you, am (or was) expecting more of their relationship in the DVD.

Quote:

It is mentioned/emphasized/payed tribute to more in the DC, but Hephaestion actually gets less screen time, and I expected at least a kiss if not more in the DC, I mean I heard they shot love scenes for the two that weren't used- so where are they?


I am curious how the relationship was portrayed because I heard in an interview that Stone NOW feels that the sexual part of their relationship ended when they were 19 (where did he get that from?); so when you say that the relationship is emphasized more in the DC, in what way do you mean?

As far as love scenes, all I ever heard were denials from Colin and Jared when asked if they kissed.

Quote:

The scene after Alexander kills Cleitus and he will only see Hephaestion is TOTALLY scrapped, and that was one of the best scenes for them.


This is a shame.

Quote:

Most everything else is the same (for them), except less screen time for Jared.


I can hear Adriv screaming from here (or, are those my screams echoing off the walls). I have to ask, is the scene where Hephaestion gives Alexander the ring still in the film?

Quote:

The one thing that was better regarding them was the higher verbal acknowledgement of their relationship, and some cool symbolsim for them in Alex's redited death scene.


There are some things I suppose to look forward to with the new edit of the film at least.

Quote:

As far as gay overtones in general the DC is tamer, the party scene early on w/ the gay actions is seriously edited, and the little scene w/ the persian boy toy is now much tamer too.....

I think the masses scared Mr. Stone w/ their homophobia....


I think you are absolutely correct here.
Which scene with Bagoas are you referring to? The bedroom? How could that get much tamer? They didn't do anything although I heard that much more was actually filmed - like rolling around under the covers and such. Or are you talking about his dance?

Quote:

I just want to know what happened to those love scenes they supposedly shot? Does anyone know? Were they rumors- or are they going to be on the DVD? They're certainly not in the DC......


Oh I would LOVE to have these answers. You mention the DVD and the DC; are there going to be two different releases?

Thank you again for posting this information; it was very informative.
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Adriv



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1144
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="cindoo15]I can hear Adriv screaming from here (or, are those my screams echoing off the walls). I have to ask, is the scene where Hephaestion gives Alexander the ring still in the film?[/quote]

Hehehe....

Damn, no luck with those two. Colin and Jared that is. Sad
At least a kiss would had been nice.
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SiriusElessar



Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn it sounds like what I heard about unused love scenes was mere rumors.... Sad Sad

There is more emphasis on Alexander and Hephaestion in that it is mentioned more all around, more than it was before by old Ptolemy, more by Olympias, more discussion of tendencies towards men in general between Philip and Alexander, more cut to Hephaestion in reaction to Alexander's interaction w/ Roxanna especially but also Bagoas, indicating hurt, and the major added focus on Hephaestion in Alexander's death scene (detailed below)- it just seemed more widely known that they were involved in this cut- but still very little seen- and in fact less because of that one scene cut after Cleitus's death.

Most of the rest of the screen time cut from Jared aside from that scene was more in battle scenes or group scenes- not one on one w/ Alexander

The ring scene is still there. I wish I could remember all the details of the lines from it in the orig. cut- because it seemed longer- but that may just be my bad memory-don't trust me on that entirely- but it is still there and highly emotionally charged! God Jared just kills me there!

Other adds
- a bit more emphasis on their meeting as boys and that their relationship dates back that far (there is much more of Alex's childhood overall)

Much more flashes of Hephaestion as Alexander is dying- much of his life "flashes before his eyes" but I would say the most is to do w/ Hephaestion- and there is a statue of Hephaestion (a perfect likeness of Jared ) there he keeps looking at before he looks up at the flag thing- if the statue was there in the original I missed it- but I know they do more flashbacks w/ Hephaestion than there were (I don't think there were any before) Forgive me it has been a while since I saw the orig. cut it would have been nicer to see them closer together... and there is more emphasis on the ring throughout- he just looks at it more, it is focused on more in the beginning and death scenes than before etc.

The scene Bagoas I was referring to was the dance scene- the kiss is still there (and can I tell you how it infuriates me that they get a kiss but A/H do not!!??) but there was less chemistry (shots of Alex watching him etc. ) during the dance- here it just would appear Alex. did it because he was urged to by the crowd (except we knew they had something going on prior with the fade to black bedroom scene) even that fade to black scene seemed shorter in the lead up but again that may be my bad memory.

As for a DVD, it is very unusual for a theatrical cut never to come out- so I'm sure we'll see that one (and I certainly hope so for that cut Hephaestion scene)

I'm fairly certain the DC will go to DVD too- most people in the test audience liked the DC and said they would buy it, I think they were trying to determine whether it should be released in theaters moreso, and what demographic would buy the DVD, what kinds of extras etc.

Actually many people indicated they would like an edition with both cuts of the film- which I agree with- that would be the best

There was a lot of polling on did we like the new battle scene cuts, new arrangeent of scenes (there was some serious chronological rearranging, much more is done in flashback now than before)

There was little polling on how everyone felt about the Hephaestion/Alexander relationship- I don't even know if it would have come up if I hadn't spoken up in favor of it- but sadly after I did the poll they took on it had most people saying they saw quite enough and didn't need anymore...stupid homophobic people......


Other differences: Olympias has some scenes cut but the scenes that remain are extended (w/ the exception of the bird and the snake at the end which is shortened)

Philip has more time- mostly in scenes w/ child Alexander, and his death scene is extended as well

Cassander has much more screen time (good for the Jonathan Rhys Meyers fans)

the first battle scene is seriously extended- far too much IMO, but the only other one still in it is the Elephant one- the other montagues- and even mentions of abttles and wins narrated by Ptolomey are gone

Mostly fine by me- I don't watch for the battles

Its just weirdly arranged now its just back and forth all the time between past and present- it was better before in arrangement
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lardvaark



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 169
Location: Southampton, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Sup, SiriusElessar! Smile Welcome to you.

Now at first when I read that you'd seen a DC I was made up, "hey, at least there's extra material he's prepared to let us see" etc.

But then it hit me, that probably means that is it - this will most likely be the longest version that will ever become available. Gutted. Sad

Actually, make that seriously gutted Crying or Very sad

Ah, I'd better go and be a miserable cow elsewhere before I drag everyone else down with me....
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Catherine X



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 814
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was Jared's agent I'd be on the phone to Oliver Stone demanding to know why my beautiful star has had so many of his scenes cut out of the film Laughing Mad
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Adriv



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1144
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catherine X wrote:
If I was Jared's agent I'd be on the phone to Oliver Stone demanding to know why my beautiful star has had so many of his scenes cut out of the film Laughing Mad


That's right!! You tell him Catherine! Mad
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cindoo15



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1282
Location: Dallas TX

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="SiriusElessar"]Damn it sounds like what I heard about unused love scenes was mere rumors.... Sad Sad

Well I've just been reminded from another post about Colin and Jared exchanging locks of hair; so, with that in mind I must reply to this sentence as follows: Maybe the love scenes weren't rumors afterall, but, maybe they just weren't filmed! Razz

Anyhow, thank you for posting all these details of what you got to see. It sounds like there are a lot of interesting things added to the DC so I am looking forward to seeing that. I just wish that nothing had to be removed! I hope you are right about both versions being released. Then, wouldn't it be cool if someone in our group (someone with great technical skills) could run them both through their computer and edit/meld them together. Then, at last, we could have our LONG version. Is that possible?
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Goldsnail



Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="cindoo15"]
SiriusElessar wrote:
Maybe the love scenes weren't rumors afterall, but, maybe they just weren't filmed! Razz

lol oh my god, we are a bunch of dirty people - I thought the same!
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Catherine X



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 814
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Maybe the love scenes weren't rumors afterall, but, maybe they just weren't filmed!


Ooh, hose me down with cold water. Well, it seems Jared and Colin were very fond of each other and in RLF's book it said the actors took on their roles in the boot camp, so maybe.... And someone said Jared is acting strangely these days. Maybe the Lerve of Colin was too much for him and he's turned.... Laughing Laughing
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Adriv



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1144
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catherine X wrote:
Quote:
Maybe the love scenes weren't rumors afterall, but, maybe they just weren't filmed!


Ooh, hose me down with cold water. Well, it seems Jared and Colin were very fond of each other and in RLF's book it said the actors took on their roles in the boot camp, so maybe.... And someone said Jared is acting strangely these days. Maybe the Lerve of Colin was too much for him and he's turned.... Laughing Laughing


Really??? Shocked I would love to know more. Twisted Evil
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