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About this whole DC concept
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Goldsnail



Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:33 pm    Post subject: About this whole DC concept Reply with quote

I thought that a Director's Cut is what happens when the director isn't happy with the movie - which is usually because the studio requested or demanded things to be changed. Often they demand that the movie is severely shortened, and so later if the director has a chance he goes again and edits back in all those nice scenes that the studio thought unfit for the screen.

In the case of "Alexander" it seemed to me that OS had pretty much free reign. It's a weird case. It seems he was very proud of the movie first but now edits it for a tamer DVD version - the reverse process, somehow, usually it's the other way round. And suddenly he says the movie has flaws.
So the possibilities are:
a) he's not as good a director as people say. He didn't even realize the movie wasn't good when he finished it, previewed it, premiered it and gave interviews. Only when it was time for the DVD did he notice "oops, don't like it so much, really".
b) the studios these days are more concerned with the DVDs than with the theatres and put a lot of pressure on him so that more people would buy the movie
c) OS doesn't know what he wanted with the movie
d) the studio wants to produce several versions of the DVD so that fans will spend a lot of money buying them all
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Adriv



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1144
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good possibilities, but all dissapointing. Sad
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Goldsnail



Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reason for that could be that I'm pretty bitter about him taking away scenes from Heph and Alex...
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apelles



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goldsnail,that was a really interesting post.I think what has happened with O.S.is that he is a genuine enthusiast,in love with the subject who became overwhelmed with the size of the story and the complexity of Alexander,s character.He said that he sat alone in a room for a year writing the screenplay.I know that if I,m working on a painting I need to go right away from it from time to time,come back and look at it with fresh eyes.Then I can see if I need to change the tones or balance or if I,ve made a mistake with the structure.If I,m really stuck I ask someone to give me an honest objective criticism.Iwonder if he just got too close to look at things objectively and lost a clear direction.Perhaps he needed a pair of fresh eyes on his approach.I,m not knocking the final result but all this weird simplification of the screenplay seems to show a lack of conviction.Maybe he was far more damaged and shocked by the mauling he got than we realise and has come up with the wrong answer to put things right because he,s working in isolation.Don,t know if this makes sense to anyone else but the creative process can be quite isolating.
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Catherine X



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 814
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apelles wrote:
Maybe he was far more damaged and shocked by the mauling he got than we realise and has come up with the wrong answer to put things right because he,s working in isolation.Don,t know if this makes sense to anyone else but the creative process can be quite isolating.


Yes, I know exactly what you mean. When I'm writing my stories I get completely obsessed by them and spend hours typing, leaving my poor husband to get on with everything. Poor old Oliver, he probably has been more hurt than we thought Sad At least he had our letter to help a little.
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cindoo15



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1282
Location: Dallas TX

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are right, it probably did hurt him. I think the answer to the question is that the studio is pressuring him for changes in the DVD because of the response to the theater version. The creative process is all fine and well but with the studio, but the bottom lines is M O N E Y! It is a business afterall. I wonder how they will advertise the DVD. I wouldn't be surprised if it's somehow advertised as 'new and improved'. Not those words of coarse, but along those lines. I am pretty sure they'll want people to know that it's not the movie they saw in the theater that they hated so much, that this is a new and much better movie.

Of coarse, I'm not saying it's better; I'm pretty darn upset about the whole thing but that's just my opinion which is obviously not what the studio cares about.
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Goldsnail



Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But come on, I mean, if someone saw it in the theatres and didn't like it, he won't buy the DVD only because it says "we changed some things, please buy me"...

As for Stone getting to much into his own stuff, I can understand that (I write stories) - but if he didn't bother to have people look it over again and again and give him honest criticism, well...
It's just so strange. Usually the DC includes controversial or challenging or deep scenes that were seen unfit for the general audience. Here it is the exact other way round. Very weird indeed.
*can't get over it* lol
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girard



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When he (Stone) replied to the letter, he did say that there would be 2 versions released right? The 2hr, 55min version we all saw in the theaters set to release on Jun 14, and then a shorter just over 2 hr version that would be more the "safe family" one.

This scaled down version missing some scenes and a new order of arranged of some scenes would be the same length as this shorter "safe" version. Is that what he's talking about?

So, if that's true, than we can still just get the original one that we saw in the theaters if we want it, and not the new, re-arranged shorter, safe DVD that's being discussed, right?

From what I understood, we get our choice. They're going to release both versions. Or did I just misunderstand what he said in his reply to that letter?

I, of course want the 2hr, 55 min movie that I witnessed in the theater. If I can just purchase that copy, I'll be happy.

Anyone, please clarify if you've got the facts on this, thanks.

Girard
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cindoo15



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
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Location: Dallas TX

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The theatrical version will be reproduced and distributed at the same time." This is what Oliver Stone said in the Cineaste magazine interview that I saw in another post here.
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allison



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 233
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the DC is more a response to financial backers &c of the film than making the film he always wanted. It's not that people went to the theatre and hated the film; people listened to critics &c and avoided the film. Most of the people I talk to about Alexander (infact all of them except for the person who watched it with me) have not even seen the film, yet are quite happy to criticise it by parroting the various critics. I think that by making the DC a 'safe' version and pandering to one lot of critics comments, and having the theatrical release, OS may be playing a different game. Remember his comments about korea, and how he had cut the film as requested by korea but they showed the theatrical version anyway to packed houses? Could he be using similar tactics here - making people think that things were different, encourage the knockers to realise that people are buying the theatrical release rather than the safe version, and the original film is vindicated to a certain degree.

What do others think Question
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Goldsnail



Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm just upset about the terminology - are they really going to call it Director's Cut or is that just something buzzing around on the internet?
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apelles



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OS may be playing a different game. Remember his comments about korea, and how he had cut the film as requested by korea but they showed the theatrical version anyway to packed houses? Could he be using similar tactics here - making people think that things were different, encourage the knockers to realise that people are buying the theatrical release rather than the safe version, and the original film is vindicated to a certain degree.

What do others think Question[/quote]
Allison...Really interesting idea.Remember O.S.is never straight forward--always a conspiracy theorist You may well be right and he is playing a double bluff.Does anybody else think this is likely or are we just reading too much into a person wounded by criticism trying to somehow connect with a hostile audience?
Also agree with people quoting critics without seeing the film,like a load of sheep,except sheep are probably more intelligent.I,ve had a lot of fun with people by challenging them to justify criticisms and then shooting them down in flames---not difficult when they talk bulls--t.Sorry for the rant but everyone,s suddenly an expert on Al or film directing.I think we,re lucky to have O.S,s version otherwise one of history,s great love stories would have never seen the light of day.
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cindoo15



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
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Location: Dallas TX

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonderfully said. I see it too as one of histories great love stories. But what is even more fantastic is everything else he accomplished while having this great love story going on. Absolutely incredible.
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apelles



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cindoo15 wrote:
Wonderfully said. I see it too as one of histories great love stories. But what is even more fantastic is everything else he accomplished while having this great love story going on. Absolutely incredible.


I only realised this recently.Suppose it somehow gets lost because I,ve never seen anyone with such a crowded and eventful life,have you?And as you say, to do everything else as well---mind blowing!Getting back to O.S. I looked at two taped programmes yesterday.In the first"Charging for Alexander" done with Robin Lane Fox,during filming,his body language was really positive,he was sure of himself,cheerful,dynamic and in control.In the second,an interview with Kirsty Wark,after the critical slamming,he was quite different---defensive body language,almost bewildered at what had happened,resigned and talking a lot about not connecting to the American audience.He kept saying that his "mind was bamboo.It bends but doesn,t break"and that he was open to change.He looked like a man who had his self confidence totally shattered,so I think that maybe this is the main motivation for the changes to the film,along with studio pressure.I hope Allison is right though about the double bluff.I would love O.S.to have the last laugh. Smile
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lardvaark



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 169
Location: Southampton, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:01 am    Post subject: Warning: this post contains undiluted anger and sarcasm Reply with quote

Allison, I had a very similar experience to you: most people I know (or hear of) do the film down not because they saw and disliked it, but rather due to the fact that they listened to someone who listened to someone else who read a review by some "expert" Mad critic who decided they didn't like it to avoid the p***-taking of their colleagues.
Ironically - and I don't believe I've mentioned this before - one of those people refused to go to the cinema as he feared the Alexander-Hephaistion relationship would be played down (!) too much. I kid you not, and I quote "Nah, no thanks - they'll pretend it never happened, just like in Troy". This guy was looking at me, bewildered, some five minutes later when I was still banging my head on the wall.

What I'm getting to is, it seems most people will adopt an automatically negative approach to things until shown otherwise, a "guilty until proven innocent" sort of mentality. The knock-on effect can be quite scary. And if people weren't prepared to dip into their pockets for five quid to go and see it in cinemas based purely on poorly-thought out preconceptions, what on Earth makes them think they will happily throw their 20s over the counter for a DVD purely because they've been told it's been tweaked?

I've been giving it some thought and have come to a few conclusions: first off, I'm prepared for most of the ignorant masses (and this includes an unhealthy proportion of critics) to go "Nope, sorry - it's still crap, we're not buying it" (I mean, their extraordinary psychic abilities allowed them to judge the film without even going near the cinemas, so doing the same for the DVD should be child's play for them). And many will laugh at what they conceitedly see as a "desparate attempt" to win them over, and dig their heels in all the more. Rolling Eyes

Secondly, releasing nothing more complete than the original theatrical version is dangerous in my opinion. For starters, loyal fans like us deserve a little more as this is what we have come to expect with extended editions, DCs or whatever we wish to call them. And this pushes the competition from the higher-quality pirates to a place it should never be. Come on, will some people pay extra when they're not getting any extra?

It's sad we have to draw conclusions like this, but we know what people are like.
Apologies, as they say, for length
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