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apro



Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Efstathios wrote:
And we cannot know for sure if the rumors about Demosthenes were true....


I totally agree, which is why I said Aeschines had his own axe to grind against Demosthenes. Smile
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cindoo15



Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1282
Location: Dallas TX

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apro wrote:
Vrettas wrote:
I was under the impression that the ancient Macedonian language was a Doric Greek dialect.


Knowledge of the language is very limited because there are no surviving Macedonian texts. The only body of authentic Macedonian words surviving is mainly from coin inscriptions and from the 5th century lexicon of Hesychius of Alexandria, amounting to about 700 words and proper names which are confidently identifiable as being Greek. Some of them are not easily reconciled with standard Greek phonology but that could be of Illyrian and Thracian influence to the language. The majority of them are definately Greek.

There is a 5th century BC comedy called "Macedonians" by the Athenian poet Stratties, where the Macedonian speech is clearly presented as a form of a Greek dialogue. In ancient Greek plays actors would show that a character was of non Greek origin by having him speak only in this form: bar-bar-bar-bar [the word barbaric was derived from this] meaning he is speaking in a foreing tongue not understood by other Hellenics. Greek characters spoke in Greek but with different accents to show they were Hellenic but from different Hellenic regions. In the play "Macedonians", all actors playing Macedonians spoke in a Greek dialect with accents.


Very interesting. Thank you.
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cassanders mum



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 64
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is nowhere mentioned that Hephaestion was Alexander's lover.We know that Alexander loved him as a dear friend, and because Alexander was influenced by Hiliad (of Homer) he saw this friendship similar to Achillees and Patroclus' one.
Let there be no missundestanding about friendships like this among the ancient greeks.They had a very strict ethical code and the spiritual admiration of their friend was what they desired, not the body.There are various sources that indicate this and mostly Spartan and Athenian sources.


The above was made VERY clear by Aristotle to young Cassander in the classroom scene near the start of the movie but most people seem to have missed it or not realised the importance of the lines to the rest of the film
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apro



Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cassanders mum wrote:
There is nowhere mentioned that Hephaestion was Alexander's lover.


This is true. None of the source material from when Alexander was alive ever mention anything about Hephaestion and he being 'lovers'. The first mention of them being anything more then just close friends was from sources thousands of years AFTER Alexander's death.
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Rachel25



Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The first mention of them being anything more then just close friends was from sources thousands of years AFTER Alexander's death.


Actually it's hundreds, not thousands, but who's counting? Well, me I guess. Laughing
But then again all the the sources themselves are from hundreds of years after ATG time, and I'm always afraid of the kettle of fish that could open up. Technically, EVERYTHING about ATG could questioned.

But yeah, it's true that none of the sources state right out "ALexander the Great and Hephaistion were lovers", which is why I always introduce them as best friends first and say "...and people think they might have been lovers", myself.
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Vrettas



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apro wrote:
Efstathios wrote:
And we cannot know for sure if the rumors about Demosthenes were true....


I totally agree, which is why I said Aeschines had his own axe to grind against Demosthenes. Smile


Wasn't Demosthene's mother a Scythian?
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Efstathios



Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes she was a Scythian.
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Vrettas



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And he had the nerve to call Phillip a babarian! lol
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