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How did affected me?

 
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RC



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 23
Location: bogota, colombia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:44 pm    Post subject: How did affected me? Reply with quote

(Dear Group: I know I’m always late here, I Know the last post in this topic was some time ago, but I’m still in January 2005 when the film came out. So here I am!)

How did affected me?

I will go right to the point (A dear friend of ours already knows something about it): I feel out with the group theater and school I belonged – and where I studied, BECAUSE OF ALEXANDER, THE FILM. How serious is that? I don’t want to sound dramatic or something, I just want to share with you people, The Alexander the Great-The Film lovers just like me, this illuminating experience I had.

(I will kindly go in details about this story in a new topic.)

But here I have to say to stop the suspense that the director-teacher I had share the common, awful, shameful idea that Alexander The Great represents the ideal of slavery, insane conquest, the genesis of Globalization (¡?!), in his bad sense of course, the unstoppable greedy conqueror, despot, and all the other imbecilities we all have heard. (Although he improved new variations of all that, believe me.)

In a world where a very dangerous and castrating way to look History takes over the minds of the so called well knowing people, who sees, “like a cynical said”, Conquests and wars, an by extension History, as a repetition of facts, is absolutely oxygenating to see such a complex, keen and responsible vision of a man in power, of a moment of Human History like never have seen before.

In a world where the so called modern people see historical leaders like Hitler’s clones and imperialism as a monolithic code, the legacy Alexander gave us is more important than ever!

This is a film that in any way glorifies Alexander, but really immerses in the tensions and contradictions of that environment. And the quest for realism, the understanding instead of exorcism, is terribly seen in these days; many want to condemn, not observe.

I had an image of Alexander as a damned king in a way, trying to live his condition with dignity and greatness, go really beyond, beyond the crude, the physical, the gold and achieve a sense of goal that really few people in his position would attempt to do.

We are in debt with that moment and that man; we have to learn from dignity. Today… well, we need like a battalion of Alexanders in the present world, right?
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Cynisca



Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Living in Yorkshire UK - ê tan ê epi tas

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi RC,
you are right in what you say....too many people can only see the bad things that Alexander represented and not the fact that for his time and even in some cases, in ours, he was different to the rest by being more compassionate, being kinder to women, using fairness in his judgement of others and wherever possible allowing the conquered peoples to allow to continue their lives as before, with the same rulers.
Comparing him to Hitler, as some have, is a total insult...and lets face it, if Alexander had lived during WW2 and supported Hitler....this world would have suffered a horrific time, as Hitler would not have lost. I don't for a minute think that Alexander would have supported him, of course, quite the opposite.
Yes, we could do with more like Alexander....I think in England our Prince Harry will gain a lot of respect, as he has gained mine, by declaring that he wants to be out there with his fellow soldiers and not sitting safely while they risk their lives...! There are worries that he could endanger his men by being targeted, but what a boost in morale those same men will have.
regards
Cynisca
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1270
Location: Greece/USA/Italy/UK/

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How nicely you put everything down Raul!
I just can't understand how some people have that 'wrong' idea for Alexander. Don't they realise that he lived at a time when war was the norm? We have said that many times, but I'll repeat it. It's stupid to compare the morality that existed at Alexander's time with the morality of our own. It doesn't work like that. You must be an idiot to say so.

" If anyone has the right to be measured by the standards of his own time, it is Alexander" (Hermann Bengston)

I'm so glad to see you posting again, Raul.
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RC



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 23
Location: bogota, colombia

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Cynisca, I'm back again!

I would say that is worst than seeing only the bad, is to see the entire landscape with a vicious lens, in a sort of speaking (I can't find a better metaphore, sorry), and yes, as you you eloquently put it, is an insult. Is more than that. I take this kind of things and comments as a personal insult, more than ever!
What you say about Prince Harry could be seen by others as a minor aspect. Not for me for a chance. You reminded me an interview Colin Farrell gave to a local magazine when he said something like: "Alexander was the first in the battle front. I wish the **** Bush (you know how he speaks) would be in the Bagdad streets with a rifle!"

Racial and cultural superiority, impositive culture above the conquered ones, quest for vengeance, hate to other races (hate, for Christ sake!?) an illuminated truth to impose others, all that associated to Alexander? I will say it over and over: Is worthy of authentic indignation!

Thanks for reply!
Raul.
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RC



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 23
Location: bogota, colombia

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just love the way you get upset, dear Yanna! But I also hate people with those ideas get you upset!

You couldn't say it better (I always remember you repeating that in the forum): "War was the rule, not the exception". For me this is really a poethic truth. We can't learn a thing from the past if we use those "Historicist" codes, or revisionists, as the are called so. And we also know if Alexander ever used war and conquest as an "excuse", was for something really "abstract" and humanistic at the same time, a degree of exploration and expansion, not only Geographically (which in that moment is by itself more than a triumph) but of course an expansion of the conscience, an expansion of the soul through the space.

I go back what I said about seeing "imperialism" like a kind of "cloned" thing from the proto-history to our time. And intellectuals calls that understanding the past, vitalize the present or whatever. It makes me laugh, a sad laugh. I recently read a play by a Mexican author about the Spanish Conquest, with Malinali ("La Malinche") as a central character, and it was a kind of mixture of past and present, showing the Spanish as American tourists, drunks ans so, mixing the modern Parlament, the sub-commander Marcos in dialogs with Cuautemoc, etc., and to be perfectly honest, I thought: Well, this could be a nice approach for an 11 year old student trying to write a play as an attempt for connect, in a didactic way, ancient colonialism with modern one, but pretending to see the past and try to learn and really dinamize it with our own present existance from those resources, is just ridiculous, a bad parody, an extremely naive and fool ***parody. It's like disguising a Roman emperor as a Kaiser, is limitating and a dangerous generalization.

And if that kid gets only that approach as a contrast, even for a boy could be stigmatizing.

Yanna, Thanks for replying! (I will be here from now on, constantly, now that I can be a bit more!)
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RC



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 23
Location: bogota, colombia

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:02 pm    Post subject: APOLOGIZE-ACCLARATION Reply with quote

Terribly sorry that I opened a new discussion from an existant subject in being such an amateur still trying to post correctly. Sorry! I felt I could give a wrong impression that I wanted to be by myself, I just wanted to put it in the topic Catherine X opened.
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apelles



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: How did affected me? Reply with quote

[quote="RC
Quote:
I will go right to the point (A dear friend of ours already knows something about it): I feel out with the group theater and school I belonged – and where I studied, BECAUSE OF ALEXANDER, THE FILM. How serious is that? I don’t want to sound dramatic or something, I just want to share with you people, The Alexander the Great-The Film lovers just like me, this illuminating experience I had.

Raul.I understand and empathise completely.This doesn't sound as though you are being dramatic at all,just standing up for what you think is right.That's a brave,courageous thing to do.I know because I've had to do something similar all through last year.It's not easy but integrity is worth a lot.
Quote:
This is a film that in any way glorifies Alexander, but really immerses in the tensions and contradictions of that environment. And the quest for realism, the understanding instead of exorcism, is terribly seen in these days; many want to condemn, not observe.

I had an image of Alexander as a damned king in a way, trying to live his condition with dignity and greatness, go really beyond, beyond the crude, the physical, the gold and achieve a sense of goal that really few people in his position would attempt to do.
We are in debt with that moment and that man; we have to learn from dignity. Today… well, we need like a battalion of Alexanders in the present world, right?

This makes a lot of sense to me.Alexander lived with great dignity and lived with a vision many people choose not to understand because they are too cynical .We can't apply standards of behaviour common to past or present leaders to a man like Alexander.Like Yanna said,we have to judge him by the standards of his own time and then realise that even in his own time he was unique.We know he wasn't perfect.
Raul,you stick with your vision of what Alexander meant to past generations and what he still means today.Dignity?I think if some of the world leaders could learn that,together with honesty,then we'd all be in a better world.
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RC



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 23
Location: bogota, colombia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: How did affected me? Reply with quote

Quote:
Alexander lived with great dignity and lived with a vision many people choose not to understand because they are too cynical .


Apelles, I truly believe that's the magic word: "Cynical." I get breathless with that kind of people, making fun of things pretending to be insight and having "strong" positions. Sad, I would say.

Oddly enough, this whole situation was of course not easy, but in being as I said, so iluminating in many ways, it gave me great strenght and power, I feel really good right now, becuse I rediscovered and reconfirmed, whatever the cost, what I always felt, that sense of Alexander. I say thanks in many ways for this whole experience.

Quote:
I think if some of the world leaders could learn that,together with honesty,then we'd all be in a better world.


This is really something, Apelles, because... the thing is, this is not a matter of opinions, no matter how bitter or pretencious are, this is something deeply alive that could really change things if it would be taken seriously. And with "wise" people around there thinking like that, pretendig to be against the system, we will go nowhere. We will have more massacres because of obscure principles, nothing attached to reality.

Thanks!
*(I already know how to quote, thanks to you. I'm sorry but I'm still a bit ignorant about those tools.)
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apelles



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: How did affected me? Reply with quote

[quote="RC
Quote:
"]
Quote:
Alexander lived with great dignity and lived with a vision many people choose not to understand because they are too cynical .


Apelles, I truly believe that's the magic word: "Cynical." I get breathless with that kind of people, making fun of things pretending to be insight and having "strong" positions. Sad, I would say.

To right!It,sad.like you say that so many people find it impossible to understand idealism.You understand what I mean?Yanna said something a while back.She said "Why do people always have to look at what Alexander did and find some underhand or cynical motive"...or something like that.I agree.Why can't they just accept that many things he did were for the best of reasons?
Quote:
Oddly enough, this whole situation was of course not easy, but in being as I said, so iluminating in many ways, it gave me great strenght and power, I feel really good right now, becuse I rediscovered and reconfirmed, whatever the cost, what I always felt, that sense of Alexander. I say thanks in many ways for this whole experience.

It's always difficult to stand alone and speak out for what you think is right and I've been through something similar so I understand.But,like you I feel a stronger and more confident person because I didn't take the easy way and go along with the crowd.I,m glad you feel good about what you did.You know,Alexander also had to cope with going against what all his Macedonians believed in when he became ruler of Persia.That wasn't easy either but we have that example to think about in our own lives.
Quote:
Quote:
I think if some of the world leaders could learn that,together with honesty,then we'd all be in a better world.

This is really something, Apelles, because... the thing is, this is not a matter of opinions, no matter how bitter or pretencious are, this is something deeply alive that could really change things if it would be taken seriously. And with "wise" people around there thinking like that, pretendig to be against the system, we will go nowhere. We will have more massacres because of obscure principles, nothing attached to reality.

What we need is someone to cut through all the bull**** and get back to honesty and reality.
Quote:
Thanks!
*(I already know how to quote, thanks to you. I'm sorry but I'm still a bit ignorant about those tools.)

You're welcome,anytime! Very Happy You're doing fine with the tools.I had to have lessons from a kind person on this forum before my quotes were ok! Laughing
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RC



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 23
Location: bogota, colombia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: How did affected me? Reply with quote

Thanks for your words, Apelles.

Quote:
Yanna said something a while back.She said "Why do people always have to look at what Alexander did and find some underhand or cynical motive"...or something like that.


It always comes to my mind the fact some people judges historical actions in therms of what they think is the "progressive" code; these people are willing to approve a political assassination, let's say Richard III killing Margaret's children, and even not condemning directly mass assassinations in the Soviet Union, IF those are attached to a "progressist" reason.
If certain action is attached to an acceptable principle, they will endorse it, blindly.

One thing is, for instance, Alexander racing Thebes in order to prevent a war on Greece, a real act of strategy attached to an urgent reality, something completely different is jail and kill people massively because of the paranoia, or preserving "The code".

Alexander was an idealistic, as you said, in the very best sense.

Well, they simply find out of fashion Alexander because they associate it with a kind of informatic program with common Imperialism; but if that would be close to the code, they would give him the vote of trust. Monolitic as anything. And by the way criminal.

Quote:
It's always difficult to stand alone and speak out for what you think is right and I've been through something similar so I understand.


Well Apelles, I can only say, I'm not that alone in dealing with The Great when I can come here and listed and post. Just a compliment.

Thanks.
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1270
Location: Greece/USA/Italy/UK/

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: How did affected me? Reply with quote

RC wrote:


Alexander was an idealistic, as you said, in the very best sense.




That's right!
Some people cannot get the fact that Alexander lived many, many, many years ago and his world had other rules and moral principles. Alexander will never be understood by these narrow-minded and ignorant people.
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