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"300"
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Aniketos



Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 25
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went to see 300, NOT expecting to like it, and I thoroughly enjoyed myself. It is refreshingly unpretentious, does not claim to be historically accurate, and is based on a comic book. The cinematography is awesome, and the over-the-top, campy, unrealistic depiction of the "enemy" (Persians) is at times really funny! Definitely Xerxes is a lot of fun (and yes, no sane person would think that was a realistic characterization!) I can undersatnd why hordes of people are still going to see it in the US.

Alexandros_19 wrote:
Before watching it, so consider this as prejudice (but probably true), I am amazed and also somewhat concerned that most of the epic movies that rock at the box office (Gladiator, Troy, now 300) are either partially fictional or historically inaccurate.

Well, some of the epic movies that have NOT rocked at the box office are ALSO partially fictional, with characterizations, relationships, driving motives, all based to a large extent on personal interpretation and fiction. Wink I think to be a hit, moviegoers have to LIKE a film (after all, it is their money!), and be able to relate at some fundamental level to the characters on screen and the story being told.

By the way, Troy was not a big box office hit.
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Alexandros_19



Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 1230
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aniketos wrote:
I went to see 300, NOT expecting to like it, and I thoroughly enjoyed myself. It is refreshingly unpretentious, does not claim to be historically accurate, and is based on a comic book. The cinematography is awesome, and the over-the-top, campy, unrealistic depiction of the "enemy" (Persians) is at times really funny! Definitely Xerxes is a lot of fun (and yes, no sane person would think that was a realistic characterization!) I can undersatnd why hordes of people are still going to see it in the US.

Alexandros_19 wrote:
Before watching it, so consider this as prejudice (but probably true), I am amazed and also somewhat concerned that most of the epic movies that rock at the box office (Gladiator, Troy, now 300) are either partially fictional or historically inaccurate.

Well, some of the epic movies that have NOT rocked at the box office are ALSO partially fictional, with characterizations, relationships, driving motives, all based to a large extent on personal interpretation and fiction. Wink I think to be a hit, moviegoers have to LIKE a film (after all, it is their money!), and be able to relate at some fundamental level to the characters on screen and the story being told.

By the way, Troy was not a big box office hit.


Two notes I want to make, Aniketos. First, what I said (about the fact that most of the epic movies that "rock at the box office" are either partially fictional or historically inaccurate) does not logically implicate that there can't be those that don't rock at the box office, just that there are no historically accurate, in general, among those that do it.
Second, respect to your "by the way", Troy earned at the box office 481 million dollars and is among the 50 all-time worlwide records at the box office. Isn't that enough to say that it was a box office hit? In fact, it is more of a box office hit than Gladiator (curiously, you may find), which obtained 456 million dollars.
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Aniketos



Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 25
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexandros_19 wrote:
Two notes I want to make, Aniketos. First, what I said (about the fact that most of the epic movies that "rock at the box office" are either partially fictional or historically inaccurate) does not logically implicate that there can't be those that don't rock at the box office, just that there are no historically accurate, in general, among those that do it.
Second, respect to your "by the way", Troy earned at the box office 481 million dollars and is among the 50 all-time worlwide records at the box office. Isn't that enough to say that it was a box office hit? In fact, it is more of a box office hit than Gladiator (curiously, you may find), which obtained 456 million dollars.


Hello Alexandros_19! I am not trying to contradict you - that was not my intention before either! Sorry if I came across that way. I just wanted to point out earlier that I think box office hits happen when a lot of people LIKE the story, characters, etc. in an epic, whether they are portrayed accurately or fictionally. This is also seen in non-historical biography-type movies where there have been a few hits with fairly accurate portrayal of a story.

As for Troy, the reason I said it was not a BIG box office hit is:
Production budget: $175 million (US)
Domestic US gross: $ 133 million (US)
WW gross: $497 million (US)

That is, it didn't do all that well in the US with respect to its production budget (which was pretty huge, I think). You are quite corrcet that it did do very well in its WW gross. For Gladiator, production budget was $103 million and WW gross was $457 (US $). Interestingly 300 has a production budget of only $65 million. These figures are from www.boxofficemojo.com
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isela, you are confused. This is just a movie based on a comic book. You made the same mistake, like some other people, to compare today's politics with that of almost 2,500 years ago. Why do people think of the political situation in the world now everytime they see a historical movie? East versus West conflict that we're experiencing at present has nothing to do with this film. And it's a pity to see again that people cannot see the diference between a film (a piece of art) and an accurate documentary. Mainly this movie is about good vs evil in Miller's style. That's all.

What really happened in history is how a fistful of people defended their country against a powerful invader. They chose to die. Their sacrifice inspired all Greece and this tiny country managed to beat back the invaders. And that is a great story. And fortunately it can be seen in the movie. I read somewhere " The "300" film celebrates the values that all people should share: Bravery, Courage, Honour, Sacrifice and Duty" I absolutely agree with that and that is what I saw in the movie. My mind was not concentrating on Persians or Greeks or whatever but on humans who tried to save their country and protect their people. I was really moved by the last scene. If you cannot see the 'beauty' of it what can I say? Leave your mind free, away from any prejudice and go to see it again, Isela. Please don't think of Iran, Iraq, the USA...as it is now. Try to see these few men's sacrifice. You know it takes guts to say to your enemy when you're asked to surrender and give them your guns
"Come and get them!".

PREPARE FOR GLORY ! Yes, Leonidas, you were absolutely right Exclamation
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you read Herodotus and what he wrote about the battle of Thermopylae, you will see the movie from a different angle. You will see how Persians and Greeks behaved.

Some extracts:

" Xerxes was watching the battle from where he sat; and it is said that in the course of the attacks three times, in terror for his army, he leapt to his feet "

" In the course of that fight Leonidas fell, having fought most gallantly, and many distinguished Spartans with him - their names I have learned, as those of men who deserve to be remembered; indeed, I have learned the names of all the three hundred."

" Such, then, is the story of the Greeks' struggle at Thermopylae....Xerxes went over the battlefield to see the bodies, and having been told that Leonidas was king of Sparta and commander of the Spartan force, ordered his head to be cut off and fixed on a stake. This is in my opinion the strongest evidence- though there is plenty more- that King Xerxes, while Leonidas was still alive, felt fiercer anger against him than against any other man; had that not been so, he would never have committed this outrage upon his body..."

Well, what respect and honour for men who distinguish themselves in war!
That was Xerxes' treatment of Leonidas' dead body. No comment..

And all this is history, Isela, not a movie based on a graphic novel with the help of computers. This is HISTORY!
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Cynisca



Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Living in Yorkshire UK - ê tan ê epi tas

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Joanna
I have had some things to say elsewhere, in defence of Leonidas and those at Thermopylae...but the Greeks and those who know their Greek ancestry are those who have the greatest right to defend their heritage and ancient culture.... Very Happy
I know of Greeks who cried at the end of this film, both men and women and so did I... Sad
ΜΟΛOΝ ΛΑΒΕ.....!!!
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LEONIDAS



Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 201
Location: southern califorina

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:09 pm    Post subject: the 300 Reply with quote

Yea Isela LISTEN TO THE LADIES THEY COULDNT HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER I already have said my say back two weeks when you posted all this rubbish. I am not greek but I think most of us have a better understanding then you. M aybe you should take a long break for awhile and stick to me mel gibson movies. MOLON LAVE
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isela



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 385
Location: mexico

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Its not my desire to argue about it but looking that perhaps here we have a misunderstood I will try to clarify this.

From my past post the main idea is:

what really worries me is that out there exist millions of persons who are not interested in learn history but they are interested on this action pseudo historical films, for this reason they accept these ridiculous movie situations as something more or less real they confuse the real history with this stupid and nonsense fiction and then the problem appear when the person who is watching these movie receives a message of the struggle against the "savages" ancestors of the current Arabs or Muslim ones and he or she take a part on this psychological trick.

I understand that we all can not think in the same form and I respect the plurality of each one, I would never attack any idea or ideology mostly when they are too controversial topics with many faces, but I had to stand up and face what I consider a movie so loaded with evilness and lack of sensibility.

I don’t mean to offend nobody if I did it I apologize it was not my intention. I love and respect this forum but I don’t repent about what I wrote and I keep on thinking in the same way.

Finally I only wish that my way of think and express will be respected in the same way I respect yours.
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Cynisca



Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Living in Yorkshire UK - ê tan ê epi tas

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Isela,
I respect your right to your own viewpoint.....
it's just that some of us have very strong feelings about Thermopylae and what happened there...this is not the only place of heated 'discussion' Wink
I can appreciate your concerns that some people will look at 300 in the wrong way and think it is an attack on the current population of Irag and Iran, although I think the main concern was that some will think the real battle simply a fantasy, like Helms Deep in The Two Towers....
The ancient Greeks considered the Persians as 'barbarians' the Persian army was 'monsterous', Xerxes was over 6 feet tall....all these was changed into symbolism...the traitorous Ephialtes was unfit, the decandance of the Persian court was the symbol of his fall.
If you like JRR Tolkien and the films, think about the Uruk Hai, Uruk was the ancient name for Iraq as part of ancient Mesopotamia and the city of Gilgamesh...!
I didn't hear any complaints about the portrayal of the Urakai as 'Persians'.....!!! Very Happy
Regards
Cynisca
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LEONIDAS



Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 201
Location: southern califorina

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:22 pm    Post subject: the 300 Reply with quote

Well Isela between you and I we will have misunderstandings as long as both of us are in here. AS before it was said to you this movie was based on a comic book nothing related to Iraq Iran or Bush . Keep your opinions about spartans to yourself and stick to alexander instead that way there wont be any problems like we are having now thanks to you. Y our country or mine and others dont have any good track record when it comes to war.I t the way it is .
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1270
Location: Greece/USA/Italy/UK/

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think, Isela, you're asking from us to respect your opinion when you, first, didn't respect ours. You said terrible things about the Spartans and the most outstanding heroic resistance in history. A few men agaist thousands. Only this fact should make people respect those 300 Spartans. I repeat, your mistake was to mix up REAL HISTORY with this specific film which is nothing else but an artist work of a graphic artist.

Then, since you said so many unfair things about those heroes, (if those Spartans are not called heroes, then who is!), you should answer our questions, too. Cynisca said something about 'Urakai' and what I said about the 'respectful' treatment Xerxes had for Leonidas' dead body has not been commented, either.

You know, what I believe, Isela? Since I understand you haven't read Herodotus or other historical books on those times , then sometimes we, human beings, say something out of ignorance. You should have studied a little history before being so offensive. Because, I'm telling you, (in case you haven't realised that), you were offensive. You shouldn't have talked like that.

All reasonable people should understand the sacrifice of the "300" Spartans. All sensible people should admire them: THE 300 SPARTANS Exclamation
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But, Isela, my dear, since you were my friend, you still are and you will always be. A misunderstanding and wrong reception for a film made in Hollywood cannot break the bond I have for you Smile
I'm sure, in the long run, you will understand your mistake. And if I was a little rough on you, forgive me.
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Cynisca



Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Living in Yorkshire UK - ê tan ê epi tas

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The motto of this is......'Go tell the Spartans stranger passing by, that we love them, as well as Alexander'.... Wink
I had posted this on another forum, regarding Leonidas at Themopylae (Gioi will know of this)
There was a reason that Xerxes had Leonidas's body mutilated and crucified, rather than honour him, as any decent person would have done (look at Alexander and Darius).
Not only that Leonidas refused to be a vassal of Xerxes and took a fair few of his Immortals down along with the rest of the Persian army (talking as a collective of Spartans and Thespiaens under his command, as well as Leonidas himself)
Xerxes was scared and even jealous of Leonidas, a man who could compel such bravery from his men that they died trying to protect his body. Leonidas shamed Xerxes , he shamed the whole Persian army.
Alexander was the only man to conquer the Persian army, Leonidas as well as Alexander shamed them.


Μολoν λαβέ
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know about the 'Leonidas Expedition' in 2008?
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a look http://www.theleonidasexpeditions.com/2008leonidasexpedition.html
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