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any one else a fan of hephaistion and bagoas?
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meshuggahruls



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 120
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:36 am    Post subject: any one else a fan of hephaistion and bagoas? Reply with quote

hi im cal
i love both hephaistion and bagoas from historical and fictional stories. i dunno know why but i seem to like them a lil more than alexander anyone share the same views?
from callie Twisted Evil Very Happy Smile Laughing Surprised Wink Rolling Eyes Question Cool Razz Twisted Evil [/quote]
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cnm72



Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 24
Location: metropolis

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey there Cal... Smile

Hephaistion seemed somewhat interesting in that from what I remember he was a bit of a brute... correct me if I am wrong

but then it seems that all Alexanders companions were very "manly men" which I would think to be necessary to conquer the world...some of what they went through is surreal

I do admire the idea of their closeness...

whom was Bagoas?
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meshuggahruls



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 120
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crapdude,
sorry i havent like checked my replies in like a month
hey even if hephaistion was a bit of a brute i dont care ,bagoas was alexanders persian lover. supposedly . and he was previously dariuss boy
sry again about that
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cnm72



Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 24
Location: metropolis

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the brute comment was neutral... chances are I may have been a bit of a brute if I was him

yes... I recently read on Bagoas... didn't he have something to do with the death of Dariuss?
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Sue



Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I'm new to the forum.

I'm currently reading Mary Renault's "Persian Boy" and I love Bagoas! I like Renault's Alexander too, but in this book, we get to see everything through Bagoas's eyes, which makes him more endearing.

I quite like Renault's Hephaistion as well. Can't wait till the movie comes out. Smile
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Countplato



Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 22
Location: Los Angeles, CA, United States

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:20 am    Post subject: on Bagoas and Hephastian Reply with quote

After discussing the subject of their relationships with Alexander (with someone else who's read "The Persian Boy"), the conclusion seems to be that Alexander needed them both and they both tolerated each other because they both realized the reason. Forgive the crude revelation, but Bagoas was Alexander's bottom boy, and Hephastian was Alexender's top man. That seems to be the most reasonable explanation, which might also explain Hephastian's brutish behavior.

Countplato
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Countplato



Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 22
Location: Los Angeles, CA, United States

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:22 am    Post subject: Hephaestion Reply with quote

Excuse my spelling!!! I didn't mean to upset the gods! LOL!

Countplato
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Sue



Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I agree with you. That's the impression I got when I read "The Persian Boy". I think Bagoas accepted in the end that Alexander loved Hephaistion more, but he also knew he had a place in Alexander's heart as well.

Also I believe Bagoas was definitely the "receiver". Smile

I think it's in the last book of the trilogy - "Funeral Games" - where Bagoas says he chose not to kill himself when Alexander died, because he knew Hephaistion would be waiting for Alexander, and Bagoas would be the third wheel. He thought if he waited, and died later, Alexander would be ready to welcome into the after life.
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mahesh cummins



Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:15 am    Post subject: To Sue Reply with quote

Let me introduce myself. I am Countplato's partner. I have been reading history since I was ten years old. Sir Anthony Hopkins is a year older that I am. I have read all of Ms. Renault's books set in the ancient world.
I have read "The Persian Boy" thirteen times. Obsessive. Can't help it.

All of this interest in the Renault novels and Alexander is delightful. Now that the Count has begun to be interested in the topic. I am going to reread the trilogy and "The Nature of Alexander". Am so looking to see the film.

I was so disappointed with the Richard Burton rendition of "Fire From Heaven.

So let the games begin.

Smile
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mahesh cummins



Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cnm72 wrote:
the brute comment was neutral... chances are I may have been a bit of a brute if I was him

yes... I recently read on Bagoas... didn't he have something to do with the death of Dariuss?


The young eunoch, Bagoas, was probably not present when Darius was assinated. He was most likely present when Bessos and Nabazarnes took Darius captive and tried to escape Alexander's persuit.
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Countplato



Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 22
Location: Los Angeles, CA, United States

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:35 am    Post subject: Who did Alexander love more. . .? Reply with quote

. . .Hephaestion or Bagoas? That's a tough question Sue. According to illustration and personal interpretation, it's a toss up. In "The Persian Boy" we definately get the feeling that Bagoas has the king's ear. But we also get the impression that Hephaestion will not make any attempt at removing Bagoas from Alexander's life (even though he could have, having the strength), knowing that Alexander was a perfect bi-*** and needed not only Bagoas and Hephaestian, but Staitera and Roxanne to make his life complete. Hephaestion and Bagoas knew that all too well even though the women did not, that does not in any way diminish the love he had for both the foremost men in his life. I'm not making a judgement about women, but an observation about the way a lesbian, Mary Renault, depicts the attitudes of the times (which I feel she hits the nail on the head). Hephaestion and Bagoas were equally important to the emotional survival and success of Alexander's conquests. I wonder how Stone will pull that off in the movie, even if he tries to. It's a very difficult and subtle point about the concept Alexander had about his relationship between those two men (Bagoas and Hephaestion). It was physical. It was emotional. It was intellectual. And it was spiritual. It was, to say the least, very intense.
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Sue



Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I wonder how Stone will pull that off in the movie, even if he tries to. It's a very difficult and subtle point about the concept Alexander had about his relationship between those two men (Bagoas and Hephaestion). It was physical. It was emotional. It was intellectual. And it was spiritual. It was, to say the least, very intense.


I am looking forward to this movie very much indeed, just to see where Stone chooses to go. I hope he's not put off by the anti-gay brigade. Then again, I heard that Heath Ledger has signed up to play a gay cowboy, so maybe there's hope for this movie yet! Very Happy

I'm really loving this discussion. I've read "The Persian Boy" twice now, and love it a great deal.

Countplato, have you read "The Charioteer"? That is the first book which I fell in love with, and I've read a huge number of books.

Nice to meet you, too, mahesh cummins. Good to see someone around my own age here. Wink
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Countplato



Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 22
Location: Los Angeles, CA, United States

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:38 pm    Post subject: Mary Renault Reply with quote

Hi Sue,

I haven't read "The Charioteer" yet; however, Mahesh (my partner) has "The Mask of Apollo" which I'm more than likely going to read after I read "The Nature of Alexander."

I'm also lovin' this discussion board.

I don't think Oliver Stone is afraid of any anti-gay brigade as he's usually surrounded by controversy no matter what he does. I do feel that if someone is going to give this movie a true treatment, it's going to be him.
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Vecchiolarry



Joined: 21 Dec 2003
Posts: 164
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:21 am    Post subject: Hello to the Two New Ones!!!!!! Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,
Ahh Hah,,, Sue and Mahesh Cummins tried to sneak onto the board without introducing themselves in a separate thread........ 40 whacks with a very wet noodle to both of you..... Crying or Very sad

Sue - I'm also an older member here. So, hi and welcome.

Now, I wonder if Alexander simply married these women to procreate and for political reasons??? And, his true heart lay with the boys, so to speak?? Wink

Count - like you, I tell it like it is and damn the torpedoes. Embarassed

Love ya all,
Larry
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Sue



Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Larry! Is it imperative that we make an introductory post? I'm a bit shy. Embarassed

Thanks for your welcome. I'm used to posting at Live Journal, where no-one appears to be over 40.

Quote:
Now, I wonder if Alexander simply married these women to procreate and for political reasons??? And, his true heart lay with the boys, so to speak??


It's so long ago, who can tell for sure? It suits my slashy desires to think so. Cool
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