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Macedonian dress

 
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alexander makedon



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 82
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:22 am    Post subject: Macedonian dress Reply with quote

What a difference between Burton's Alexander and Oliver's! The armour and weapons of the Macedonian soldiers is very authenitic in the upcomming movie. I am impressed by the helmets, the so-called Phrygian type which the Macedonians wear. They are identical as the ones from the Alexander Sacrophagus. How do you feel about the way Stone has dressed the Macedonians? Acurate enough?

Alexander Makedon
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Salonika



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is close to the description of there weaponry, the cuirass (breast plates) are accurate, the difference with the hellenic cuirass is that the hellenes followed the spartan way of equiping themselves, the breast plate shows the muscles, but the macedonian one doesn't, it's just pressed hard leather or steal, and it shows decorations on it, like the one alexander wears on the mosaic in pompey and in the movie, another thing is that the macedonians wore speacial sandals, and most hellenes didn't even wear sandals to battle, the spears are different to the hellenic hoplite, the tip of the spear of the macedonian one is way smaller, the hellenic hoplite spear is much wider, the long spears were used in the phalanx and the cavalry when they charged. just thought you know.lol Laughing
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Tino



Joined: 28 Oct 2003
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somewhat agreed,

Keep in mind the Hoplite in the time of Alexander was old and out-dated (was used during the first Persian invasions) hence the introduction and superiority of the Phalanx unit.
Hoplites were the most effective fighting force hundereds of years before Alexander and gave way to the Phalanx, and in turn the Phalanx gave way to the Roman Legions.

I don't think it's fair to compare the two, it's like trying to compare a bow and arrow to a machine-gun.
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alexander makedon



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 82
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right Salonika, the sandals or the Macedonian boots were another dominant difference. We can see that Stone has the Macedonians wearing the boots and also the cloak. The Macedonians even designed Alexandria in the form of that Macedonian cloak Wink

Alexander Makedon
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Vasilios



Joined: 14 Feb 2004
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Location: San Diego, USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything looks to be authentic, from the bronze cuirass to the Phyrgian styled helmet that was wore by the infantry/foot soldiers.

The calvary dress also seems to be well authenticated as well, usually the members of the companion calvary wore a cloak with no cuirass. Yet the majority of the cavarly of Alexander was from central Greece (Thessaly) The Thessalians more often than that wore a leather cuirass underneath, and a cloak over that.
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Salonika



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Somewhat agreed,

Keep in mind the Hoplite in the time of Alexander was old and out-dated (was used during the first Persian invasions) hence the introduction and superiority of the Phalanx unit.
Hoplites were the most effective fighting force hundereds of years before Alexander and gave way to the Phalanx, and in turn the Phalanx gave way to the Roman Legions.

I don't think it's fair to compare the two, it's like trying to compare a bow and arrow to a machine-gun


I know Tino that modern warfare evolves, but the hellenic soldiers in alexanders army were still wearing the same equipment duiring the persian wars, the theban sacred band was still using the same equipment an so was the hellenic hoplite, even though phillip created this new macedonian army, it was modelled from the theban phalanx, when he was exiled there he learned a lot of things. I agree with you there is a continuation of hellene, macedonian and roman, all these three styles of warfare were still being used write until the appearance of napolean.
My point is that they were all unique in there prepairing tactics, the problem with the macedonian phalanx is that i is useless on rough terrain, that is were the roman legion dominates, the legion can form on any angle fast, and also move faster, while the macedonian phalnx needs time to assemble, until that time the would have been cut down, and that is why macedon lost to rome, or maybe because alexander wasn't alive lol, he knew only when to deploy the phalanx and when not to, because the same soldiers that were the phalanx didn't always use the long sarrissa, they either used a smaller spear or sword, and were in closed formation, connecting there shields together, fighting between the shields.
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Ptolemy V



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reforms of the military strategist Iphicrates in the first part of the 4th century BC had transformed the hoplite panoply throughout the Greek world. Lighter armour had replaced the traditional muscled bronze cuirass and hoplon shield. The hoplite had a longer spear, smaller shield and generally wore a linen cuirass.

The "Phrygian" helmet also gained popularity over styles such as the Corinthian among the infantry- it was called Phrygian not because it was a helmet worn by Phrgyians but because its shape resembled the Phrygian cap. Alexander's Companion cavalry wore the "Boeotian" helmet. Both these helmet designs provided a greater field of vision than the traditional Corinthian type.

Alexander's army had a similar style of panoply, though the sarissa was an even longer spear than that resulting from the Iphicratic reforms.

The book "Greece & Rome at War" by Peter Connolly provides an excellent description of arms and armour during the 4th century BC and the Hellenistic age.
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Salonika



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any particulair reason why it resembled the phrygian cap?
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Ptolemy V



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salonika wrote:
Any particulair reason why it resembled the phrygian cap?


I believe it was the forward sloping top of the helmet which resembled a similar feature to the Phrygian cap:



As for the Phrygian cap:







"Soft felt or wool conical headdress fitting closely around the head and characterized by a pointed crown that curls forward. It originated in the ancient country of Phrygia in Asia Minor and is represented in ancient Greek art as the type of headdress worn by Orientals. In Rome the Phrygian cap was worn by emancipated slaves as a symbol of their freedom. (Encyclopædia Britannica 2003)

The Phrygian cap is a sort of cross between a close-fitting cap and a hood, sometimes more one than the other. It was worn by the ancient Greeks, the Scythians, the Gauls, the Franks, the Anglo-Saxons and the French revolutionaries in the late 1700's."

See: http://www.earlyperiod.com/articles/phrygian_cap/

In the movie, the helmets in the still shots released so far are of a different type, though I would expect that the majority of the infantry in Alexander's army would be wearing the "Phrygian" helmet as it was the type most worn by infantry in the Greek world at that time.

The helmets in the pic below are of the Attic type (resembling the Chalcidian but with no nose piece and more elaborate in decoration):



Here Farrell as Alexander wears the Attic helmet while the Companion cavalry in the background wear the "Boeotian" helmet:



The cavalry in the background in this picture are wearing a helmet called the "Pilos":



Here are close up pics of various helmets to compare:

"Boeotian"



"Pilos"



"Attic"





"Chalcidian"





"Corinthian"

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Ptolemy V



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres a pic from the movie I found that shows two cavalry (in front of Colin Farrell) wearing the "Phrygian" helmet with "moustache and beard" cheek flaps. They are also wearing "muscled" cuirasses.

Another soldier behind Farrell also wears a Phrygian type helmet.

The three cavalry in the front wear the "Boeotian" helmet, while the two soldiers on either side of Farrell wear the "Attic/Chalcidian" type helmet.

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Salonika



Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen roman statues of roman generals wearing the pilos also, and i think they adopted it, and i think the corinthian and the second chalcidian helmets are in fact spartan, most of the battle wear the hellenes had were spartan, and the first one is correct the boetian theban one, the theban sacred band used this helmet, it's a strange helmet compared to the other hellenic types.
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