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Alexander The Great Mt.
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Child of a Dream



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 117
Location: Madrid, Spain

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really tired of always reading the same things Confused

Skip, so u have fourteen?? And teaching us history?

Guys, there's no need to argue. He is just a kid.
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Swedish-Historian



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Kingdom of Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A Pom is a person from England.


Got it!

Quote:
King of Greece except Sparta????


Well you seem to think that you know a lot about Alexander and Macedonia surely you would know that Sparta was not in the corinthian league... or did you??? Confused

Quote:
I read that Hellas was not a nation but an education or an ideal, how can someone be the King of Education??? I have a lot of friends who have moved from Asia to the western world for an education, does this automatically change their ethnicity and culture?


Hellas was an education and ideal?????? boy i suggest you go and read some more history books. Hellenes was a word for all greek tribes in other words for all greeks since they shared the same ideals religion culture and had same ethnicity etc...

Therefor the the greek citystates with a democratic rulership found the macedonian state which was greek but with a monarch rulership half barbarous. Same with Thessaly and no one questions there greekness.
and no a asiat moving to England for studies is not an englishman aswell a slavic person moving to ancient greek lands is not a macedon... is it all clear now or is too much for you???

[/quote]I also read that Alexander did not unite them but controlled them???
Quote:


Well call it what you want its the same really... people in Hellas saw it like they were controlled and some saw it as he was uniting them.


My opinion to your comments are that you have no chance of giving me a 100% answer on the truth as it is based on assumption. You also mention that someone is trying to steal greek history - my opnion is that histroy cannot be stolen as it belongs to everyone and if a people, with or without a connection, can be inspired by a historical figure, this is a good thing with all politics aside.
Quote:


I am not assuming anything. i am just stating facts which are scientific proven... you tend to do that when you are soon to be a doctor in ancient history and specialices on Hellenism....

My dad has taught me to never judge a person based on how someone else has described them - peoples assumptions are what has caused all the problems I see on the news today.
[quote]

Good for you!!!

Quote:
Swedish Histroian another general question, how can you base you title on just reading books. You should be called Swedish plagurer. I thought Swedes were smart - I guess not


Well Skippy i do not know what plagurer means but i assume its bad...
anyway if it makes you feel better to call me name then do it... i will not engage in childish acts.

And if you want to discuss history please come back in about 10 years when you actually have studied some history and discuss on a scientific level... grow up skippy!!


ooohhh and another thing....

Quote:
my opnion is that histroy cannot be stolen as it belongs to everyone and if a people, with or without a connection, can be inspired by a historical figure, this is a good thing with all politics aside.


Wrong history do not belong to everyone and it can be stolen if a person has politicall and expansive motives... you'll learn that to if you read something.

And swedes not being smart... well, like you dad said dont base an opinion about a whole ppl just because of me...

Dont contradict yourself please! Rolling Eyes



Quote:
yes. I meant your avatar.


Bazil i found it on a nationalist FYROM website Wink
dont remember which... i was doing a project on ethnic realtions and why they always try to base their rights on history Laughing
The picture is taken from the Greek - FYROM border... Well of course he is on the right side Wink (that means the greek.)
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~Solun~



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 12
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Alexander The Great Mt. Reply with quote

Swedish-Historian wrote:


Check it out for yourselves
http://www.alexanderthegreatmountain.com/intro/movie.html




Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Thats funny!

The "Greeks" build a statue for Alexander....
Thats the same as if the Jews would build a statue for Hitler...
He enslave the ancient Greeks and today's Greeks build a statue for him....Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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bazil



Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Solun,

The reason the Greeks are carving his face on a mountainside is to commemorate his greatest accomplishment: the dissemination of Greek culture all the way out to India.
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Child of a Dream



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 117
Location: Madrid, Spain

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Alexander The Great Mt. Reply with quote

~Solun~ wrote:
Swedish-Historian wrote:


Check it out for yourselves
http://www.alexanderthegreatmountain.com/intro/movie.html




Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Thats funny!

The "Greeks" build a statue for Alexander....
Thats the same as if the Jews would build a statue for Hitler...
He enslave the ancient Greeks and today's Greeks build a statue for him....Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


Another one who wants to get attention... Rolling Eyes

Alexander like Hitler?? What are u saying?? Evil or Very Mad He, that respected all cultures and wanted to adjust to them??

Please... Laughing

Ah, and search another comparison, cause the one with Hitler is a little bit used, though it is absurd Rolling Eyes
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skip



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:10 am    Post subject: Why is it so? Reply with quote

...........

That Athens would chose a Roman Ruler over a Macedonian ruler if they were initially united as Hellene?

That most current historians (true histroians that do not make political remarks) have moved away from imperialistic views and have revised history according to research.

Throughout all the books I have read all I see is 'Macedonia and Greece'

My opinion, and don't bag me because I am 14, everyone has an opinion, is that :

Greek relation with Macedonian history is unquestionable.

Greek ownership of Macedonian history is unjustifiable.

Simple question, and please don't see it as an attack but a different view, as I believe different views make discussions interesting:

If a barbaric tribe with no alphabet conquered a land that was rich with education, don't you think that this pot of gold (education) would be stolen/used??? Back then, education was one of the greatest of treasures.

This can be seen today in Greece. Isn't there non-greeks that can speak greek in Greece today??? ... or is Greece 100% greek.

Discuss with me but do not lecture me.
:idea:
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Swedish-Historian



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Kingdom of Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
That Athens would chose a Roman Ruler over a Macedonian ruler if they were initially united as Hellene?

That most current historians (true histroians that do not make political remarks) have moved away from imperialistic views and have revised history according to research.

Throughout all the books I have read all I see is 'Macedonia and Greece'

My opinion, and don't bag me because I am 14, everyone has an opinion, is that :

Greek relation with Macedonian history is unquestionable.

Greek ownership of Macedonian history is unjustifiable.

Simple question, and please don't see it as an attack but a different view, as I believe different views make discussions interesting:

If a barbaric tribe with no alphabet conquered a land that was rich with education, don't you think that this pot of gold (education) would be stolen/used??? Back then, education was one of the greatest of treasures.

This can be seen today in Greece. Isn't there non-greeks that can speak greek in Greece today??? ... or is Greece 100% greek.

Discuss with me but do not lecture me.
:idea:[quote]

First of... i will lecture you since you know NOTHING about the hellenistic era... therfore i can not discuss with you since you dont have the facts to engage in a discussion.

Macedonia were not a state without an alphabet. they spoke a greek dialect, just as the thessalians had a diffirent dialect, as the ioaninas had, as the epirots, as the spartans, as the athenians... If you look at their tombs, their monuments etc. they are all written in greek!!

as for the ppl in Greece. i dont think there is one country today that is not etnic 100 % if you look at CIA world factbook you will se there that there is 98% greeks and the rest is turks for the most part, some illegall albanian immigrants and som romas...

What do you mean about greek ownership of macedonia is unjustifiable???
What i know Macedonia is a part of the state Greece.
And listen now... nowhere in unbiased history books does it say that the macedonians were of a diffirent descent other than greek, it only says that they were considered half barbaric because of their rulership.
They were a doric tribe... do you know who also is a doric tribe skippy???[/quote]
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Swedish-Historian



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Kingdom of Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of... i will lecture you since you know NOTHING about the hellenistic era... therfore i can not discuss with you since you dont have the facts to engage in a discussion.

Macedonia were not a state without an alphabet. they spoke a greek dialect, just as the thessalians had a diffirent dialect, as the ioaninas had, as the epirots, as the spartans, as the athenians... If you look at their tombs, their monuments etc. they are all written in greek!!

as for the ppl in Greece. i dont think there is one country today that is not etnic 100 % if you look at CIA world factbook you will se there that there is 98% greeks and the rest is turks for the most part, some illegall albanian immigrants and som romas...

What do you mean about greek ownership of macedonia is unjustifiable???
What i know Macedonia is a part of the state Greece.
And listen now... nowhere in unbiased history books does it say that the macedonians were of a diffirent descent other than greek, it only says that they were considered half barbaric because of their rulership.
They were a doric tribe... do you know who also is a doric tribe skippy?
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Swedish-Historian



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Kingdom of Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now lets drop this discussion because we should not get into nationality debates... and frankly skippy you have nothin, i say nothing to say and discuss...

By the way i read somewhere that Alexander will be portayed as an Hellene... read it in some interview. It said the something like the Greek King from Macedonia. So i guess they will tell the truth and portray him like he was, a hellene.
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bazil



Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexander willl be portrayed as a Greek Macedonian in the film, based on the book by the Oxford scholar Robin Lane Fox. When the film is released, all questions will be answered.
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~Solun~



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 12
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Why is it so? Reply with quote

skip wrote:
...........

That Athens would chose a Roman Ruler over a Macedonian ruler if they were initially united as Hellene?

That most current historians (true histroians that do not make political remarks) have moved away from imperialistic views and have revised history according to research.

Throughout all the books I have read all I see is 'Macedonia and Greece'

My opinion, and don't bag me because I am 14, everyone has an opinion, is that :

Greek relation with Macedonian history is unquestionable.

Greek ownership of Macedonian history is unjustifiable.

Simple question, and please don't see it as an attack but a different view, as I believe different views make discussions interesting:

If a barbaric tribe with no alphabet conquered a land that was rich with education, don't you think that this pot of gold (education) would be stolen/used??? Back then, education was one of the greatest of treasures.

This can be seen today in Greece. Isn't there non-greeks that can speak greek in Greece today??? ... or is Greece 100% greek.

Discuss with me but do not lecture me.
Idea



Very interesting and thruth thoughts!



Yours faithfully

~Solun~
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skip



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:46 am    Post subject: Swedish historian Reply with quote

It is funny how the word doctor is so loosely used.

How many Macedonian graves/tombs have been found?

When are they dated?

Has there been any graves found of the basic population?

Did the basic Egyptian population know how to right in hyrogliphics?

Was the Macedonian population pure doric greek?

Any unbiased book? Does that mean any book that contradicts one point of view?

Is it not true that the romans also used the pot of gold(education) of the greeks?

Why would Athens have a Roman ruler rather than a Macedonian ruler if they were united?



Please answer my questions!
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skip



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and I forgot!

So you base your knowledge on the CIA reports!!! - Look everyone this guy has got to be kidding me!

98% greek and 2% turk

Question - Have you ever been to Greece??

I guess not because if you had you would have seen this ratio as being false.

Greece has 1.2 million Albanian inhabitants - more than 10% - boy i guess the CIA missed that. Let's not even look at the other non-greek inhabitants.

LOSER/LOSER/LOSER
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Xenos



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is amazing to me how an interesting topic such as this can be dragged through the mud by ignorant individuals Rolling Eyes

Hey Skip! So you're 14? Is that in dog years? Your little game has gone on long enough pal Exclamation

I hope Kevin locks this one because, as we keep on seeing time and time again, FYROMian nationalists are doing their little bit yet again! Why can't we just have a reasonable discussion about such a commendable project devoid of nationalist and political undertones. Hats off to Swedishhistorian for trying to bring some sense of balance and interest to this forum Exclamation
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skip



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No games played here. As i said I am a young person interested in history and I think I am asking good questions.

Here is another one for you:

At its zenith, Macedonia proper included the region from the Pindos mountains in the west to the Strymon valley in the east. From the Peneios River and the Aegean Sea in the south, it extended to approximately the present-day borders of Greece in the north. Under the Romans, the province of Macedonia stretched from the Adriatic Sea in the west to the river Nestos in the east, and from the northern city of Bylazora to the Spercheios River in the south.

Please explain the origin of this Macedonian city? 0 Bylazora

There is a meaning which cannot be described by the Greek language but a language which supposedly arrive around 600-700AD.

No argument, just food for thought.

Cheers.
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