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For those who saw the movie
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Catherine X



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 814
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:08 am    Post subject: To Goldsnail and Poppea Reply with quote

I agree with you entirely [and anyone else I have not seen on this thread who liked Alexander]

I don't understand why people/ critics hated it so much. It wasn't half as bad as loads of other films I've seen. I suppose if you went to see it expecting it to be all battle scenes, you'd be disappointed but the film was more about people and human relationships which I enjoy much better than endless fighting.

Perhaps we should start an Alexander fan club? Question
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Ariobarzin



Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: I agree Reply with quote

Lala wrote:
Ariobarzin wrote:
IRAN official language (modern Persian or Parsi).
Question: Is "Parsi" a very fast spoken language?
Cause we have a saying here: You speak English (for example) parsi!!! And we are using this expression to state that the person speaks a foreign language fluently. In other words fluently=parsi!! Only we pronounce it as PHarsi!!


Well, my wife who is Spanish always says that I speak much faster when I speak in my native language than in Spanish, French or English... But I believe that this is because she does not understand my native language or also because you are always more fluent in your native language than in any other language. Not sure...
"Parsi" would be the correct spelling, as the initial "P" was transformed to "F" by arabs who don't have the letter "P" in their alphabet...
Anyway the language spoken in todays IRAN (and parts of Afghanistan, and in Tajikistan), has evolved alot since the Alexander times... The most important changes came after the Arab conquest of the 7th century AD, where many new words where introduced into the language (mainly of religous, spiritual and judiciary origin). Also the "Lengua Franca" (communication language) of the early Muslim community (untill early 10th century AD) was Arabic, as scholars and scientifics used to write and communicate in that language to be understood by everyone inside the Muslim empire (same as what is happening now with English language, or what was the case with Latin before the Renaissance).

Now, I am interested in knowing wheter the Greek language has changed much since Alexander times? Would you understand Alexander if he would speak to you today? I personaly like the sonority of the modern Greek language.
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vulgaren



Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 140
Location: Skopje, Republic of Macedonia

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexander mother tongue was ancient macedonian.
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Alec



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 69
Location: Paris (France)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:33 am    Post subject: Fan club!! Reply with quote

Yes Catherine, i agree with your idea of making a fan club, because i so love this movie! (in spite of this stupid narrator Wink )
Let's go with the fan club!!!

Live Alexander! !!!!!

Alec
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Catherine X



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 814
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, we could have a fan club, even if its just to go against the people who hate this film. I have seen so much hatred of poor old Alexander- why do people get so nasty over a film?

But even if we do have a fanclub, I don't know if I want to dress up Laughing
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Alec



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 69
Location: Paris (France)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:44 am    Post subject: I do!! Reply with quote

I do want to dress up and i will !!! i'm sure i could be cute with a skirt, a helmet etc... Laughing
For the fan club, i think your topic about what you think is a great place to start... (go read my last post, u'll understand Wink )

See ya

Alec (second member of the fan club, just because i've been registered after Catherine who is the first one Cool )
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: I agree Reply with quote

Ariobarzin wrote:
Lala wrote:
Ariobarzin wrote:
IRAN official language (modern Persian or Parsi).
Question: Is "Parsi" a very fast spoken language?
Cause we have a saying here: You speak English (for example) parsi!!! And we are using this expression to state that the person speaks a foreign language fluently. In other words fluently=parsi!! Only we pronounce it as PHarsi!!


Well, my wife who is Spanish always says that I speak much faster when I speak in my native language than in Spanish, French or English... But I believe that this is because she does not understand my native language or also because you are always more fluent in your native language than in any other language. Not sure...
"Parsi" would be the correct spelling, as the initial "P" was transformed to "F" by arabs who don't have the letter "P" in their alphabet...
Anyway the language spoken in todays IRAN (and parts of Afghanistan, and in Tajikistan), has evolved alot since the Alexander times... The most important changes came after the Arab conquest of the 7th century AD, where many new words where introduced into the language (mainly of religous, spiritual and judiciary origin). Also the "Lengua Franca" (communication language) of the early Muslim community (untill early 10th century AD) was Arabic, as scholars and scientifics used to write and communicate in that language to be understood by everyone inside the Muslim empire (same as what is happening now with English language, or what was the case with Latin before the Renaissance).

Now, I am interested in knowing wheter the Greek language has changed much since Alexander times? Would you understand Alexander if he would speak to you today? I personaly like the sonority of the modern Greek language.


This is really interesting!! Always wondered what that word "Farsi" (Parsi) meant. Thank you!

As for the Greek language, it's rather simplified now. I bet that the ancients were pronouncing things more vividly than we do now. The good thing about our language is that it's basis is very logical (even mathematical) and you can build on it. Some ancient words, we don't use anymore but we can still understand. Some other words, like "Aeroplano" did not exist back then but it was very easy to create... Aero (Air) + Plano (Plane) and those two words are both ancient! We also still have many dialects depending on the region people lived / live. Example: Cretans pronounce the letter "k" as "ts"... Laughing Laughing Cypriots and Pontians (Greeks that came from Black Sea coasts=Pontos) speak two different dialects that are closer to ancient than to the modern Greek!! But of course we also have foreign words in our modern vocabulary such as "porta" which is Italian or "doulapi" which is from the Turkish "dolap" (if I am not mistaken) etc etc. We use those words mostly, but it does not mean that we don't know the Greek equivalent.

So, Alexander being so learned would probably understand most of our sayings!! Laughing Laughing What a thought!!!
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Ariobarzin



Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: I agree Reply with quote

Lala wrote:
Ariobarzin wrote:
Lala wrote:
Ariobarzin wrote:
IRAN official language (modern Persian or Parsi).
Question: Is "Parsi" a very fast spoken language?
Cause we have a saying here: You speak English (for example) parsi!!! And we are using this expression to state that the person speaks a foreign language fluently. In other words fluently=parsi!! Only we pronounce it as PHarsi!!


Well, my wife who is Spanish always says that I speak much faster when I speak in my native language than in Spanish, French or English... But I believe that this is because she does not understand my native language or also because you are always more fluent in your native language than in any other language. Not sure...
"Parsi" would be the correct spelling, as the initial "P" was transformed to "F" by arabs who don't have the letter "P" in their alphabet...
Anyway the language spoken in todays IRAN (and parts of Afghanistan, and in Tajikistan), has evolved alot since the Alexander times... The most important changes came after the Arab conquest of the 7th century AD, where many new words where introduced into the language (mainly of religous, spiritual and judiciary origin). Also the "Lengua Franca" (communication language) of the early Muslim community (untill early 10th century AD) was Arabic, as scholars and scientifics used to write and communicate in that language to be understood by everyone inside the Muslim empire (same as what is happening now with English language, or what was the case with Latin before the Renaissance).

Now, I am interested in knowing wheter the Greek language has changed much since Alexander times? Would you understand Alexander if he would speak to you today? I personaly like the sonority of the modern Greek language.


This is really interesting!! Always wondered what that word "Farsi" (Parsi) meant. Thank you!

As for the Greek language, it's rather simplified now. I bet that the ancients were pronouncing things more vividly than we do now. The good thing about our language is that it's basis is very logical (even mathematical) and you can build on it. Some ancient words, we don't use anymore but we can still understand. Some other words, like "Aeroplano" did not exist back then but it was very easy to create... Aero (Air) + Plano (Plane) and those two words are both ancient! We also still have many dialects depending on the region people lived / live. Example: Cretans pronounce the letter "k" as "ts"... Laughing Laughing Cypriots and Pontians (Greeks that came from Black Sea coasts=Pontos) speak two different dialects that are closer to ancient than to the modern Greek!! But of course we also have foreign words in our modern vocabulary such as "porta" which is Italian or "doulapi" which is from the Turkish "dolap" (if I am not mistaken) etc etc. We use those words mostly, but it does not mean that we don't know the Greek equivalent.

So, Alexander being so learned would probably understand most of our sayings!! Laughing Laughing What a thought!!!


Lala, thanks for the explanations. I have learned something!
So no difference in language between Macedonian and other Greek states Greek (back in Alexander time I mean)?
Some here seem to say the opposite.
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Vrettas



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No there wasn't a difference. But I'm sure they (ancient macedonians) would've pronounced some words differently.
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. At least that is what the scientists have agreed on.
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is also what we see when visiting local ancient sites by reading (we are still able to read and understand the ancient writtings) the inscriptions on the tombs.
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vulgaren



Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 140
Location: Skopje, Republic of Macedonia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...the Greek historian Plutarch (I AD), describing a quarrel between Alexander The Great and one of his friends wrote that Alexander "jumped on his feet and in Macedonian called on his shield-bearers"11)

...The Greek historian Arrian (I AD) wrote that there was a "racial rivalry" between the ancient Macedonians and the Greeks8).

...by the ancient Greek historian Arrian. In this papyrus (PSI XII.1284) an episode from the history of ancient Macedonia has been described where the distinction of Macedonian language has been clearly emphasized. It has been described in this text how the secretary of Philip and Alexander of Macedon, Eumenes was: "…sending forth a man called Xennias who was Macedonian in speech…" to negotiate with the Macedonian army of Neoptolemeus. This event took place around 321 BC.14)

Demosthenes gave the following insulting remark about the Macedonian King Philip II of Macedon:

"That man Philip, not only he is not a Greek, but also he does not have anything in common with the Greeks. If only he would have been a barbarian from a decent country - but he is not even that. He is a scabby creature from Macedonia - a land that one can not even bring a slave that is worth something from".15)

Ancient Macedonian existence is confirmed by every Hellenic scholar - Paul Cartledge and R J Fox in UK but the sticking point is how similar was to Greek. The problem is that ancient Macedonian was a verbal language which disapeared all together with the ancient Macedonians so it is impossible to know what it was like.
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody said that Ancient Macedonian spoken language was not a dialect. Everyone is saying that it was a Hellenic (Greek) dialect.
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vulgaren



Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 140
Location: Skopje, Republic of Macedonia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lala wrote:
Nobody said that Ancient Macedonian spoken language was not a dialect. Everyone is saying that it was a Hellenic (Greek) dialect.


nope - nobody is saying it was a greek dialect - and if it was why would Alexander have to address his Macedonian troops in Macedonian? Surly they would have undertand an accent?
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, how did Plutarch understand what Alexander was telling the shield-bearers? As for the "racial rivalry" and Demosthenes, are you sure that there were no political notions into that? Do you know where the name of Hellenes came from and why? Why did Alexander's grandfather told the Persians he was a Greek? Why would Alexander the Great be looking up to Achilles? Why did he sleep with the Illiad under his pillow? Why did he spread the Hellenic (Greek) language over the continents? How would you call a remote villager who doesn't speak your language properly?
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