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Persians not represented accurately in the movie
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lock



Joined: 12 Sep 2004
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rachel25 wrote:
Quote:
i would like to correct the first post as well,and that is that the greeks and persians did not conquer the whole civilized world.let's not forget *** and other kingdoms and empires in africa and asia and other places and some were superpowers as well at the time of alexander.


That's probably why I always hear it said that Alexander conquered 90% of the KNOWN civilized world. I don't think a single person living then even imagined that Asia extended so fair north or that Africa the same so far south. The tribes in North and South America don't count seeing as it wasn't for over another 15hundred years before they were discovered and then the people mistook them for Indians.


known to who?
indians and others were making history as well and did not wait to be discovered by europeans.that is why i disagree with viewing the world though european eyes.THE KNOWN civilized WORLD was known by africans,asians and others too.a african would say they know thier world even if you really did not know his or hers.

let's turn it around shall we. the nok civilization in *** ,did not really knew about greece,so i guess the greeks were not known in the civilized world.what did others had to say other than europeans and let's look at others history because if many in the west did you would stop saying the known world,because the known world is what europeans know and i am not european.what about other points of view and what they had to say about worlds known to them.
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emperor



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many iranians have fair hair color I've met alot myself specially the ones on the north.
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emperor



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lock wrote:
I agree that someone else should have played alexander's first wife.
i would like to correct the first post as well,and that is that the greeks and persians did not conquer the whole civilized world.let's not forget *** and other kingdoms and empires in africa and asia and other places and some were superpowers as well at the time of alexander.


If I was Oliver Stone I would cast Ornella Muti for that.
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emperor



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here me:
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Pedz201



Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 11
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:34 pm    Post subject: 'Salam' Reply with quote

Ironically You are right about Iranians having Blonde hair and blue eyes., however now-days this is an uncommon trait.

It is one of the ironies of history that Aryan, a word nowadays referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed physical ideal of Nazi Germany, originally referred to a people who looked vastly different. Its history starts with the ancient Indo-Iranians, Indo-European peoples who inhabited parts of what are now Iran. Basically Iran’s originated from Europe and they are a white race.

Best Regards

Pedram

Hi to all the Persians out there.
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lock



Joined: 12 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

persians where mostly white in ancient times, but most folks living in iran now are not white.
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emperor



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes that's what I'm saying! Iranians are not related to Persians. Persians were a group of people moved to the iran from Siberia because they didn't have enough food to eat. another race came to iran as well they were the Medes, medes were from the Aryan race but about 90 or 95% of people living in modern iran are from the native iranians such as bacterians, sogdians etc...
and not really many iranians are white inclouding myself but still depends on what's your defenition of white...

[/img]
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mOoK



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 233
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

u guys... it's just a movie 4 da luv of God!!!!!!! Confused
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malbarrbak



Joined: 24 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:24 pm    Post subject: Books on ancient Iran Reply with quote

In response to the query above, three books that might be of interest on ancient Iran are:

A. T. Olmstead – History of the Persian Empire

J. M. Cook - Persian Empire

R. Ghrishman - Iran

Olmstead's book was witten in the late 1940s, but it was still the recommended work at Oxford University in 1980. I think it's still in print (Chicago University Press?) Ghrishman's book is an out-of-print Pelican.
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emperor



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here are some iranian models i found while i was surfing on the net:


[img]




http://www.bbc.co.uk/shropshire/films/bollywood/2003/12/images/john_150.jpg[/img]













[/img]
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vulgaren



Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hehehe - history, pride and ... todays beauty models. Who said we weren't vain?
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emperor



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hollywood portrayal of Iranians is exemplified by the selection of Rosario Dawson ( http://www.lostfocus.de/archives/rosario_dawson.jpg ), a very talented, beautiful and intelligent black actress, to star as Roxanna, an ancient Iranian queen from Soghdia-Bactria. Roxanna was not black, anymore than Alexander was Scandinavian. Having Rosario Dawson portrayed as Roxanna makes as much sense as having Lucy Liu, an Asian-American, portraying Queen Victoria of Great Britain.

Roxane was related to a North Iranian tribe known later as the Sarmatians, the remnants who survive in the Caucasus and Russia as the Ossetians (ancient Alans or Ard-Alans)

Roman sources such as Pliny repeatedly describe ancient North Iranian peoples such as the Alans and Seres as "…flaxen (blonde) haired blue eyed nomads…" (see Wilcox, p.19). Rosario Dawson does not fit the description of an ancient Iranian woman, especially from Northern Iranian stock. The Ossetians of today, descendants of ancient Northern Iranians, predominantly resemble northern Iranians and Europeans and speak an archaic Iranian language (like the Avesta of the Zoroastrians). Blondism is very common among these descendants of ancient North Iranians in cities such as Beslan and Vladikafkaz. It can be argued that Roxanna was a brunette, however, she was of Northern Iranian stock, which would still make her very different from actress Rosario Dawson.

There are plenty of talented actresses of Iranian descent in North America alone that would well fit the historical Roxanna. Oliver Stone could have just as easily selected an Iranian actress, however he relied on the historical "expertise" of Professor Fox. The question that can be addressed to Professor Fox is this: what makes Rosario Dawson so representative of Iranian women and Roxanna in particular? Is the Professor aware of the anthropology and history of ancient Iran as it was at 333 BC?

More puzzling is the design of Roxanna's costume in the movie. Note the photo showing the marriage of Alexander to Roxanna. Roxanna appears to wear a Burka-like veil constructed of strips of metallic mesh in which the face is partly hidden!!!

The headgear is partly correct if we base the costume on the Saka Paradraya Iranian speaking tribes of the present-day Ukraine (8-4th centuries BC). The decorations on the headgear are simply wrong and Iranian queens did not wear face masks of any type. For a discussion of the Saka Paradrya, known in the west as Scythians, consult:Ancient Iranian women, who were found in military, religious and political leadership roles, simply did not wear such attire during courtship, marriage or everyday duties.this face mask are present in Afghanistan today, mainly the result of former Taliban rule and very conservative Pashtoon tribal society, which very strongly identifies itself with the culture of ancient Arabia.Even more interesting is the "Arabian Nights" portrayal of an Achaemenid harem. Harems certainly existed in Persia and the later Roman and Byzantine courts, however the specifically "Arabian" appearance accdored to the Achaemenids is simply consistent with the Hollywood tradition of portraying Iranians as Arabs.

Interestingly, the movie portrays the "Persians" with Arabian styles of music and dance.
These errors are enough to question the historical accuracy of the Alexander picture. It seems that when it comes to Iranians and their identity, history is easily "re-written" for the benefit of popular entertainment. As Professor Fox has duly noted in an interview with Archeology Today
A perfect example of this is how the movie explicitly shows Aristotle deriding the Persians as inferior to the Greeks. Modern Greeks place this in context and see Aristotle as expressing the political climate of his day. Iranians are very well liked and respected in Greece and are seen as the heirs of a great civilization. Alexander himself came to greatly appreciate the Iranians and their culture. It is a shame that the movie did not show Alexander as paying homage to the tomb of Cyrus the Great.
I look forward to the day when we will see blockbuster movies of Shapur I (241-272) who defeated three Roman emperors in his lifetime and destroyed a third of Rome's armies. Even more dramatic would be to see movies made of the life and times of figures such as Zarathustra, Aryaman, Shahrbaraz, Mani, Mazdak, Babak, Sina or Omar Khayyam.
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manos



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy I didn't know that Iranians and Persians or Persian-Iranians have the same problems as Greeks/Macedonians/Slavs!!! Have an arguement guys is not fun to see only us "fighting"!

Just kiding, actually I was thinking that Iranians have dark skin and look like Pakistanis,Iragis,Afganis etc. I met Iranians in London, 1 from south Iran who has dark skin and two from north who have white (mediteranian like) skin and blue or green eyes. One is girl and is blonde. Emperor is right.

Greek Achaoi (like Achilleus) are described from Homerus as hong-blond hair men.
My danish girlfriend's opinion is that vikings spread the blonde-race. Question
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Fox does not understand the military of ancient Persia. A typographical shot of the battle of Gaugamela, shows the Greeks advancing in ordered and disciplined ranks. In contrast, the armies of Darius III Codomannus are shown as little better than an amorphous mob. This is a false image of the Achaemenid army. The Achaemenids used drums and musical instruments to direct the marching tactics of their troops in battle. Second, the Achaemeneans used the decimal system, which was in fact, unknown to the Greeks of the period. Persian units were formed in legions of 10, 1000 or 1000 or 100,000. A typical term was "Hezar-Patesh" (roughly equivalent to "leader of a thousand men").
Greeks were certainly excellent fighters but this doesn't mean that the persians weren't. Shocked

This military imbalance changed with the coming of the Parthian and Sassanian cavalry. The Iranian Savaran (elite Cavalry) successfully halted and defeated many of the later Greek-Hoplite inspired Roman armies. Many Romans attempted to imitate Alexander and failed against Persia. These include Marcus Lucinius Crassus at Carrhae, Marc Antony at Tabriz (where he failed twice), Gordian III at Mesiche, Phillip the Arab near modern Syria, Valerian at Barbablissos, and Julian the Apostate in Mesopotamia. I personally doubt that Hollywood will recreate these spectacular Roman defeats as these will challenge contemporary western notions of the Alexandrian legacy. In addition, many Iranians today are unaware of the proud legacy of the Parthian and Sassanian Savaran.
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