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Nell



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:47 pm    Post subject: Criticism Reply with quote

I'm new to this forum, so if this post is in any way inappropriate please let me know, lock it, remove it, do what you want. I just really need to express these thoughts because I've been holding them in for a long time, and since you all seem like intelligent and good people I thought maybe you could englighten me and teach me things I didn't know yet - put me in my place, maybe shut me up... or agree with me.

As a Colin Farrell fan I've been reading through and listening to a lot of criticism concerning 'Alexander'. As a movie fan and a historian, however, I'm fed up with listening like I am just a random person in the audience who is just supposed to accept people give their 'expert' views like they know better than me.

'Alexander', in my view, is a great project and I'm glad it was made the way it was made, dispite some historical inaccurancies. People complain about this movie all the time, it almost sounds to me like sheeplike-behaviour.

There are many things 'experts' in the media complain about when it comes to Alexander; wrong casting, boring, a joke, too long. Yet somehow it seems to bother none of these people that 'Troy' has some of the same flaws. I've been digging and thinking and trying to figure out why. Wrong casting? I think the casting was brilliant. I praise Oliver Stone for the way he casted this film. Colin Farrell is an actor with lots of potential, he did his best to portray Alexander the way he sees him. Colin himself knows very well what it's like to grow up with a father who is such an 'alfa-male' as Phillip II was. People who comment on Colin in this film mainly focus on the hair (THEY should set new priorities in life) or on the 'gayness'. Wether Alexander was gay, bi or straight, this was one take on the story and Colin carried it out like a good actor.

Then there's the debate about Angelina Jolie as Olympias. "It was rediculous," says the woman who wrote Colin's unofficial biography "because Angelina and Colin are just a year apart and nobody would buy that she is his mother." This makes me wonder; why is nobody complaining that Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal aged over 20 years in Brokeback Mountain while they didn't in real life? I mean if we're talking about age-credibility, how about Heath Ledger playing a 50 year old man? Not that he didn't do it well, I'm just saying; this is bs. Angelina was the perfect actress to play Olympia. What I know of Olympias is that she was intelligent, ambitious, she had a dark side. I could think of no-one better than Angelina Jolie to match that profile. But hey, maybe I'm wrong, maybe they should have asked Julie Andrews, maybe that would have saved the movie since that age difference would make more sense.

In my eyes Val Kilmer did a great job portraying Phillip, dispite shortcomings other may see. Val Kilmer is not Phillip II, but he's a damn good actor and did a great job. Val Kilmer's part in this movie isn't even an issue if you ask me.

'Alexander the Gay' the American Press jokes. If Americans are more impressed by fairytales than by historical greatness, then I guess they are right for bashing the movie on that. People always seem to find excuses to bash Alexander. But if you ask me this movie told one of the greatest stories this world has ever known. The story of Alexander the Great. But somehow the press prefers movies like "Troy", washed free of all gay elements, flushed with blockbuster actors, who show the people everything they seem to care about; Brad Pitt in a skirt, Orlando Bloom half naked and a lot of romanticism. Whatever happened to Patrokles being Archilles' lover? Nobody knows, nobody cares.

Surely 'Alexander' had its historical flaws, but that doesn't change the fact that it tells a great story, a story I think more people should be aware of. 'Alexander' doesn't rape the legend to please the crowd, and if that is a vice in movie world than maybe I am not such a movie fan after all.

People who do not see 'the Great' in 'Alexander' have the right to, but are missing out on a lot of beauty in the world if you ask me. It is a movie that tells the most amazing story ever, that is coloured by talented and well-cast actors. Yes it was on the long side, I'm not saying it is a flawless, perfect movie. They could have cut a lot of things out and they could have added more things to enrich it as a movie. But in the end it is a story that needs to be heard. But people are too busy being sheep in a herd to see that. You want to see a bad movie? Watch Crossroads with Britney Spears. A weak plot, bad acting.

But hey, that's just me Wink
Sorry for the rant!
Love,
Nell
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apelles



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Nell,well said!Have you been reading along with us while we,ve been discussing all those issues you raised?This is exactly how we all feel about Oliver,s valiant effort to do his beloved Alexander justice in the most honest way he knew.The critics savaged this movie because of a variety of factors unrelated to it,s merit and it was in no way deserved.We love Colin,s Alexander,the portrayal of Hephaistion and all the rest of the stuff which came in for so much stupid comment.Most of us have written to Oliver supporting him and we,ve found out that our support has been noticed and appreciated,which means a lot to us.And I think it means a lot to him too.Hope so anyway.
I think you,ve found the right forum,so welcome to the Alexandrians!
Janie
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birdiemom94



Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank God, a woman with with some sense!!

I enjoyed reading your post, Nell. I have to say that you are a breath of fresh air, the antithesis of all of the garbage that has been spewed about this film. It's nice to hear what you had to say. I do agree with what you wrote and I think you are dead right.

This is a thinking person's film. It's not one for those that the only thing they will get out of it is Colin's hair color or funny accents. I say don't bother watching it if you can't get past the small stuff. The hair and the accents were just fine, but many couldn't see much deeper than that, which is a shame. They did miss a good film, as you say. It is certainly flawed, but no where near the venom that was was written and posted about it.

Like I said it's a thinking persons film and people don't want to pay money to have to think really hard. It's a tough sell as a film. But, it is one of those small treasures that takes a unique group of people to really appreciate. Thanks for your perspective as one of those unique individuals. You have joined a very strong group of them, here.

Just to add...I think I have seen you over on the CFF, is that correct? Also, if you want another friendly site to talk about Alexander or other films (I won't drag you away from this one, I also post here when I can as well), I have a small site called Epic Film Net. We discuss Alexander, epics and other films. It's a newer site I started with a partner a few months ago. Here is the link: http://epicfilmnet.invisionplus.net/. It's just something to consider.

The members here are great! A nice bunch of people. They all are real fans. Those unique ones that see the beauty and appreciate what others many not. Thats what I find so terrific about the people, here. I hope they never change!!

Dara Smile
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Nell



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am SO glad that I'm not alone anymore Very Happy

Apelles, that is a great idea, as soon as I'm finished with studying I'm going to write to Oliver Stone to praise his work. He needs to know, you know? I think it's a dead shame people need to apologize for Alexander, I think it is a sad, sad thing.

Birdiemom94, yes you probably have seen me on Colin Farrell Fansite Smile I've been active for almost a year there - since I saw Alexander. I've reached over 1000 posts Wink so you probably couldn't have missed me if you tried Wink plus I rant a lot about Alexander Rolling Eyes

I'm glad to see more people see what I see. I think it's absolutely REDICULOUS people who call themselves 'experts' say this is not a good movie. It prooves they are not experts at all. I'm not saying I am, but I have a passion for films and study history and saw all these things and since they present themselves to be real cultural experts I don't see how they could miss what I see.

I'm so glad I found this forum Smile am definately going to check out the other one as well!
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Cynisca



Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Living in Yorkshire UK - ê tan ê epi tas

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nell,
a really warm welcome to another lady such as you..... as has been said already, you do belong here.....Very Happy
I've had a few rants myself.....as to why so many people criticise Alexander and yet others praise Troy and call it a better film Shocked
I like Troy (Eric Bana does looks good Wink) but there is simply no comparison....Troy is a semi fantasy...Alexander is authenticity on a scale rarely seen and Colin made a great Alexander...as everyone around here knows, I didn't even like him before...!
Alexander is simply the best movie of it's genre ever made.....you cannot deny it..and one of the best movies made....full stop...
regards
Cynisca
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Nell



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the welcome Cynisca!

Troy is an OK film... it's a bit on the long side, though. I mean, if they were going to rape Homer's version they might as well have cut it shorter to your nice average 1,5 hour movie Razz but it was nice. Not too impressed with Orlando Bloom, though.

I agree; Alexander is the best movie in it's genre ever made, without a doubt. Colin Farrell couldn't interest me until I saw Alexander, in fact. Why was I supposed to be impressed? All he'd done in my eyes was snog Britney Spears. Turns out he can do more than that Smile
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Chiliarch



Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 77
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nell,

I was going to post a welcome to "The New Girl" but will do it here instead. You are so very welcome to this forum Very Happy

It is a pleasure to meet yet another fan of the movie. No movie has ever touched me quite the way "Alexander" did. If you want to know how, just look at my introduction. Embarrasing Embarassed but very heartfelt, I assure you.

Your comments are so very true and I am sure we all feel this way about it. I have only one thing to add : this is a movie, it is drama, not a documentary. It is one man's take on Alexander the Great. Stone never claimed to have got it right, he just did it his way, and who is to say that he got it wrong ? This movie has so many qualities, something which makes it possible for you to watch it over and over again, because you always find something new you didn't see the last time you saw it. There is an infinite variety of detail in it.

You mention the actors, and they were just great. But apart from them there are the sets, the costumes, the battles and the incredibly beautiful music score. They should all have been given Academy Awards. The filming was wonderful, the cutting less so. But it all adds up to an unforgettable masterpiece of a movie. I love it !
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Nell



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiliarch wrote:
This is a movie, it is drama, not a documentary. It is one man's take on Alexander the Great. Stone never claimed to have got it right, he just did it his way, and who is to say that he got it wrong ? This movie has so many qualities, something which makes it possible for you to watch it over and over again, because you always find something new you didn't see the last time you saw it. There is an infinite variety of detail in it.


I agree with this 100%, I was so into my rant I forgot to mention something like this Wink

Thanks for the welcome!
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siwa



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 46
Location: Barcelona

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nell!,
Quote:
People who do not see 'the Great' in 'Alexander' have the right to, but are missing out on a lot of beauty in the world if you ask me.


Quote:
Alexander is the best movie in it's genre ever made, without a doubt


I agree with that. I t will be a classic, if someone wants to do another film about Alexander greater than this, it will be imposible. Only someone like Stone who is really in love with it is able to do a film such this.
The music is great and the film makes you dream as no other did it before. If If some day the world chanches i would like to visit Irak and babylon listening in my headphones "eternal alexander" and remembering the views of the film, as i did it in Siwa.
In my opinion, this is a film for make you dream.
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1270
Location: Greece/USA/Italy/UK/

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Criticism Reply with quote

Nell wrote:
I'm new to this forum, so if this post is in any way inappropriate please let me know, lock it, remove it, do what you want. I just really need to express these thoughts because I've been holding them in for a long time, and since you all seem like intelligent and good people I thought maybe you could englighten me and teach me things I didn't know yet - put me in my place, maybe shut me up... or agree with me.

As a Colin Farrell fan I've been reading through and listening to a lot of criticism concerning 'Alexander'. As a movie fan and a historian, however, I'm fed up with listening like I am just a random person in the audience who is just supposed to accept people give their 'expert' views like they know better than me.

'Alexander', in my view, is a great project and I'm glad it was made the way it was made, dispite some historical inaccurancies. People complain about this movie all the time, it almost sounds to me like sheeplike-behaviour.

There are many things 'experts' in the media complain about when it comes to Alexander; wrong casting, boring, a joke, too long. Yet somehow it seems to bother none of these people that 'Troy' has some of the same flaws. I've been digging and thinking and trying to figure out why. Wrong casting? I think the casting was brilliant. I praise Oliver Stone for the way he casted this film. Colin Farrell is an actor with lots of potential, he did his best to portray Alexander the way he sees him. Colin himself knows very well what it's like to grow up with a father who is such an 'alfa-male' as Phillip II was. People who comment on Colin in this film mainly focus on the hair (THEY should set new priorities in life) or on the 'gayness'. Wether Alexander was gay, bi or straight, this was one take on the story and Colin carried it out like a good actor.

Then there's the debate about Angelina Jolie as Olympias. "It was rediculous," says the woman who wrote Colin's unofficial biography "because Angelina and Colin are just a year apart and nobody would buy that she is his mother." This makes me wonder; why is nobody complaining that Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal aged over 20 years in Brokeback Mountain while they didn't in real life? I mean if we're talking about age-credibility, how about Heath Ledger playing a 50 year old man? Not that he didn't do it well, I'm just saying; this is bs. Angelina was the perfect actress to play Olympia. What I know of Olympias is that she was intelligent, ambitious, she had a dark side. I could think of no-one better than Angelina Jolie to match that profile. But hey, maybe I'm wrong, maybe they should have asked Julie Andrews, maybe that would have saved the movie since that age difference would make more sense.

In my eyes Val Kilmer did a great job portraying Phillip, dispite shortcomings other may see. Val Kilmer is not Phillip II, but he's a damn good actor and did a great job. Val Kilmer's part in this movie isn't even an issue if you ask me.

'Alexander the Gay' the American Press jokes. If Americans are more impressed by fairytales than by historical greatness, then I guess they are right for bashing the movie on that. People always seem to find excuses to bash Alexander. But if you ask me this movie told one of the greatest stories this world has ever known. The story of Alexander the Great. But somehow the press prefers movies like "Troy", washed free of all gay elements, flushed with blockbuster actors, who show the people everything they seem to care about; Brad Pitt in a skirt, Orlando Bloom half naked and a lot of romanticism. Whatever happened to Patrokles being Archilles' lover? Nobody knows, nobody cares.

Surely 'Alexander' had its historical flaws, but that doesn't change the fact that it tells a great story, a story I think more people should be aware of. 'Alexander' doesn't rape the legend to please the crowd, and if that is a vice in movie world than maybe I am not such a movie fan after all.

People who do not see 'the Great' in 'Alexander' have the right to, but are missing out on a lot of beauty in the world if you ask me. It is a movie that tells the most amazing story ever, that is coloured by talented and well-cast actors. Yes it was on the long side, I'm not saying it is a flawless, perfect movie. They could have cut a lot of things out and they could have added more things to enrich it as a movie. But in the end it is a story that needs to be heard. But people are too busy being sheep in a herd to see that. You want to see a bad movie? Watch Crossroads with Britney Spears. A weak plot, bad acting.

But hey, that's just me Wink
Sorry for the rant!
Love,
Nell




I came to the forum just a few minutes ago and I discoved a lovely person. I'm so impressed with you, Nell !

All you said is right. And your sentence that I noted above is just.....marvellous Exclamation I agree 100% .
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Nell



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Joanna Smile I'm glad you agree! I'm just so happy I found this forum, because before when I would say things like these about Alexander it was like talking to a wall. Here people really care about Alexander and agree Smile
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Nell



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Ancient History tutorial teacher, who is also fascinated by Alexander the Great, actually doesn't like "Alexander"! He thinks it's "too American".
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apelles



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nell wrote:
My Ancient History tutorial teacher, who is also fascinated by Alexander the Great, actually doesn't like "Alexander"! He thinks it's "too American".

Well,perhaps the dear man needs a little re-education,bless him.Lol!
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1270
Location: Greece/USA/Italy/UK/

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nell wrote:
My Ancient History tutorial teacher, who is also fascinated by Alexander the Great, actually doesn't like "Alexander"! He thinks it's "too American".



Someone has to explain to him what 'to be fascinated' means.
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Nell



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably, yeah Razz
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