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New Book: Descendents of Alexander the Great of Macedon
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alexander makedon



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:01 pm    Post subject: New Book: Descendents of Alexander the Great of Macedon Reply with quote

New Book: "The Descendents of Alexander the Great of Macedon - Arguments and evidence that today's Macedonians are descendents of the ancient Macedonians" by Historian Alexander Donski of Macedonia

http://www.***/ConciseMacedonia/donski.html
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Ptolemy V



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: New Book: Descendents of Alexander the Great of Macedon Reply with quote

alexander makedon wrote:
...by Historian Alexander Donski of Macedonia

http://www.***/ConciseMacedonia/donski.html



Rolling Eyes ...another highly objective "historian" and another highly objective internet "source"...
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EuritosHoplite



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:43 pm    Post subject: ?! Reply with quote

Subjective indeed!!
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Tino



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, more propaganda than CNN (you know it's alot when....)
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alexander makedon



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Where are you Great Alexander?...Your Mother, Lords and all of Macedonia now weep in your absence."
Ancient Pontic Song dedicated to Alexander the Great sung for generations by elders in Pontus.

The elders of Pontus are irrelavent because they are not Macedonians, nor descendents of the Macedonians. It is the Macedonians in Macedonia (before half of it was occupied by Greece in 1913), the true descendents that heve preseved the memory of Alexander the best. There are hundreds of such memories from the 16th to the 20th century in the new book:

"The Descendants of Alexander the Great of Macedon - The arguments and evidence that today's Macedonians are descendants of the ancient Macedonians"

This book effectively distroyes the Greek deniers of Macedonians by presenting scientific evidence about the relations between present day and ancient Macedonians, nither of whom were Greeks.

Alexander Makedon
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F*ckAthensThisIsMacedon



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The elders of Pontus are not irrelavent because it is another hellenic tribe, something you cannot understand. Alexander the Great is respected and praised by all the Hellenes today cause we do not have civil wars anymore...
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alexander makedon



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was just an information that a new book is out showing that today's Macedonians are direct descendents of the ancient, packed with ancient and modern evidence. But apparently some have something against this fact alhough they haven't even read it. Discussing modern politics resulted of the Greek ocupation of south Macedonia in 1913 is sickening.

Alexander Makedon
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F*ckAthensThisIsMacedon



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Occupation??? Is that a new one? How dare you?

Oh gosh!
I'm always available - private messaging - to discuss who is occupying what. With historic evidence.

Only educated people please!!!
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Cami Te Amo!



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:11 am    Post subject: Re: New Book: Descendents of Alexander the Great of Macedon Reply with quote

alexander makedon wrote:
New Book: "The Descendents of Alexander the Great of Macedon - Arguments and evidence that today's Macedonians are descendents of the ancient Macedonians" by Historian Alexander Donski of Macedonia

http://www.***/ConciseMacedonia/donski.html


will the book be translated on other language or we can find it just on greek?
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alexander makedon



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: New Book: Descendents of Alexander the Great of Macedon Reply with quote

Cami Te Amo! wrote:
will the book be translated on other language or we can find it just on greek?


Actually it was published in Macedonian originally but it is translated into English and is available in both languages:

http://www.***/ConciseMacedonia/donski.html

Alexander Makedon
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dzadzev



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: New Book: Descendents of Alexander the Great of Macedon Reply with quote

Cami Te Amo! wrote:
alexander makedon wrote:
New Book: "The Descendents of Alexander the Great of Macedon - Arguments and evidence that today's Macedonians are descendents of the ancient Macedonians" by Historian Alexander Donski of Macedonia

http://www.***/ConciseMacedonia/donski.html


will the book be translated on other language or we can find it just on greek?

The book was never writed on greek. It's on english and Macedonian. You can order this book through the Canadian Macedonian Historical Society at: http://www.macedonianhistory.ca/html/books.html
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Cami Te Amo!



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I didn't know that is on macedonian. Embarassed

Thanks dzadzev, I'll look for it.
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Ptolemy V



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: New Book: Descendents of Alexander the Great of Macedon Reply with quote

alexander makedon wrote:
Actually it was published in Macedonian originally but it is translated into English and is available in both languages:

http://www.***/ConciseMacedonia/donski.html

Alexander Makedon


Interestingly enough, here are some other books, written in English by non-Greek and non-Fyrom writers (unlike Mr Donski), who have a very different view to the one Mr Donski holds true:

Hermann Bengtson, ‘History of Greece’
Translated and updated by Edmund F. Bloedow, University of Ottawa Press, 1988. Chapter 10 Philip of Macedonia, pgs 185-186.


“It was he (Philip II) who accustomed this people of shepherds and peasants to urban life, who subdued the belligerent barbarian neighbours, opened up access to the sea and the country itself to Hellenic culture. For the Greeks, however, the Macedonians always remained ‘barbaroi’, never recognised by the Hellenes as cultural equals, not even when on the crest of world dominion.

In the cultural gulf between Greeks and Macedonians the question of Macedonian national origin was never more than of secondary importance in antiquity. For modern scholars the evidence from names - there is not a single sentence extant from the language of the Old Macedonians - tilts the scales in favour of the view that includes the Macedonians among the Greeks. The theory, therefore, advocated by the student of Indo-European linguistics, P.Kretschner , that the Macedonians were of Graeco-Illyrian hybrid stock, is not to be regarded as very probable. So the majority of modern historians, admittedly with the noteworthy exception of Julius Kaerst , have argued correctly for the Hellenic origin of the Macedonians. They should be included in the group of the North-West Greek tribes . This does not, however, discount the statement of Thucydides (II 99) that the Macedonians were related to the Epirotes from possibly having an element of truth. From the point of view of history it is more important that a century of isolation in the country which bears their name moulded the Macedonians into a distinctive social, political and anthropological unit, developing their essential features from within, and without domination by Hellenic influence. Thus the character of the Macedonian people had long since been moulded when, in the great power struggle between Athens and Philip, the hate-filled orations of Demosthenes repeatedly emphasised the divisive features between Greeks and Macedonians.”


John V.A. Fine, ‘The Ancient Greeks: A Critical History’ Harvard University Press, 1983, pgs 605-608.

“Since so little is known about the early Macedonians, it is hardly strange that in both ancient and modern times there has been much disagreement on their ethnic identity. The Greeks in general and Demosthenes in particular looked upon them as barbarians, that is, not Greek. Modern scholarship, after many generations of argument, now almost unanimously recognises them as Greeks, a branch of the Dorians and ‘NorthWest Greeks’ who, after long residence in the north Pindus region, migrated eastwards. The Macedonian language has not survived in any written text, but the names of individuals, places, gods, months, and the like suggest strongly that the language was a Greek dialect. Macedonian institutions, both secular and religious, had marked Hellenic characteristics and legends identify or link the people with the Dorians. During their sojourn in the Pindus complex and the long struggle to found a kingdom, however, the Macedonians fought and mingled constantly with Illyrians, Thracians, Paeonians, and probably various Greek tribes. Their language naturally acquired many Illyrian and Thracian loanwords, and some of their customs were surely influenced by their neighbours.

To the civilised Greek of the fifth and fourth centuries, the Macedonian way of life must have seemed crude and primitive. This backwardness in culture was mainly the result of geographical factors. The Greeks, who had proceeded south in the second millennium, were affected by the many civilising influences of the Mediterranean world, and ultimately they developed that very civilising institution, the polis. The Macedonians, on the other hand, remained in the north and living for centuries in mountainous areas, fighting with Illyrians, Thracians, and amongst themselves as tribe fought tribe, developed a society that may be termed Homeric. The amenities of city-state life were unknown until they began to take root in Lower Macedonia from the end of the fifth century onwards.”


Thomas Martin, ‘Ancient Greece – From Prehistoric to Hellenic Times’
Yale University Press, 1996, pgs 188-189.


“Macedonians had their own language related to Greek, but members of the elite that dominated Macedonian society routinely learned to speak Greek because they thought of themselves and indeed all Macedonians as Greek by blood. At the same time, Macedonians looked down on the Greeks to the south as a soft lot unequal to the adversities of life in Macedonia. The Greeks reciprocated this scorn.”

“The situation was therefore grave in 359 B.C., when the Macedonian king Perdiccas and four thousand Macedonian troops were slaughtered in battle with the Illyrians, hostile neighbours to the north of Macedonia.”


‘Encyclopaedia of Greece and Hellenic Tradition’, Volume 2, Edited by Graham Speake, Fitzroy Dearborn Publishers, 2000, pg 972.

“The latest archaeological findings have confirmed that Macedonia took its name from a tribe of tall, Greek-speaking people, the Makednoi (ma(e)kos = length). They shared the same religious beliefs as the rest of the Hellenic world but up until the Classical period remained outside the cultural and political development of the southern city states.”

“Yet ‘vulgar’ Macedonians were not unanimously accepted by ‘refined’ southern Greeks, especially by Athenians, as brethren. Occasionally they were classified as ‘barbarians’. This was not due to some latent but still distinguishable Thracian and Paeonian cultural influences or to local linguistic peculiarities. To a certain extent Athenian reluctance could be attributed to the Macedonian’s rough manners, their monarchic government, and their delayed appearance on the scene. But the main source of antipathy was more than a century of conflict over eastern Macedonia, Thrace, the Chalcidice colonies, and, of course, the final victorious military involvement of Macedonia in southern affairs from 350 B.C. onwards which signalled the end of the Classical period.”


O. Masson, ‘Oxford Classical Dictionary’
Edited by Simon Hornblower and Anthony Spawforth, 3rd ed. (1996). Macedonian Language, pgs 905-906.


“The problem of the nature and origin of the Macedonian language is still disputed by modern scholars, but does not seem to have been raised among the ancients. We have a rare adverb ‘makedovisti’ (important passages in Plutarch, Alex.51 and Eum.14), but the meaning of this form is ambiguous. The adverb cannot tell us whether Plutarch had in mind a language different from Greek (cf. ‘foivikisti’, 'in Phoenician'), or a dialect (cf. ‘megaristi’, 'in Megarian'), or a way of speaking (cf. ‘attikisti’).

We have some 'Macedonian' glosses, particularly in Hesychius' lexicon, but they are mostly disputed and some were corrupted in the transmission. Thus ‘abroutes’, 'eyebrows' probably must be read as ‘abrouFes’ (with 't' which renders a digamma). If so, it is a Greek dialect; yet others (e.g. A.Meillet) see the dental as authentic and think that the word belongs to an Indo-European language different from Greek.

After more than a century we recognise among linguists two schools of thought. Those who reject the Greek affiliation of Macedonian prefer to treat it as an Indo-European language of the Balkans, located geographically and linguistically between Illyrian in the west and Thracian in the east. Some, like G.Bonfante (1987), look towards Illyrian; others, like I.*** (1938), towards ‘Thraco-Phrygian’ (at the cost, sometimes, of unwarranted segmentations such as that of ‘Ale3avdros’ into ‘+ale-‘ and ‘+3avd’).

Those who favour a purely Greek nature of Macedonian as a northern Greek dialect are numerous and include early scholars like A.Fick (1874) and O.Hoffmann (1906). The Greek scholars, like G.Hatzidakis (1897, etc.) and above all J.Kalleris (1964 and 1976), have turned this assumption into a real dogma, with at times nationalistic overtones. This should not prevent us, however, from inclining towards this view.

For a long while Macedonian onomastics, which we know relatively well thanks to history, literary authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable role in the discussion. In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing. ‘Ptolemaios’ is attested as early as Homer, ‘Ale3avdros’ occurs next to Mycenaean feminine a-re-ka-sa-da-ra- ('Alexandra'), ‘Laagos’, then ‘Lagos’, matches the Cyprian 'Lawagos', etc. The small minority of names which do not look Greek, like ‘Arridaios’ or ‘Sabattaras’, may be due to a substratum or adstatum influences (as elsewhere in Greece).

Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterised by its marginal position and by local pronunciations (like ‘Berevika’ for ‘Ferevika’, etc.).

Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect (O.Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet (4th cent. BC) which may well be the first 'Macedonian' text attested (provisional publication by E.Voutyras; cf. the Bulletin Epigraphique in Rev.Et.Grec.1994, no.413); the text includes an adverb ‘opoka’ which is not Thessalian.

We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek.”


Ulrich Wilcken, ‘Alexander the Great’
W.W. Norton & Company, Reissue Edition March 1997


"It seems more and more certain that the Macedonians were a Greek tribe related to the Dorians. However, as they stayed high up in the distant north, they could not participate in the progress of civilization of the Greek people that migrated southward...".

"A strong Illyrian and Thracian influence can thus be recognized in Macedonian speech and manners. These however are only trifles compared with the Greek character of the Macedonian nationality; for example the names of the true full blooded Macedonians, especially of the princes and nobles, are purely Greek in their formation and sounds."

"And yet when we take into account the political conditions, religion and morals of the Macedonians, our conviction is strengthened that they were a Greek race akin to the Dorians."


J.R. Hamilton, ‘Alexander the Great’
Hutchinson, London, 1973


"That the Macedonians were of Greek stock seems certain. The claim made by the Argead dynasty to be of Argive descent may be no more than a generally accepted myth, but Macedonian proper names, such as Ptolemaios or Philippos, are good Greek names, and the names of the Macedonian months, although differed from those of Athens or Sparta, were also Greek. The language spoken by the Macedonians, which
Greeks of the classical period found intelligible, appears to have been a primitive north-west Greek dialect, much influenced by the languages of the neighboring barbarians."


Robin Lane Fox, ‘Alexander the Great’
Penguin USA, Reissue Edition, September 1994


"These plains would be the envy of any Greek visitor who crossed their southern border by the narrow vale of Tempe and the foot of Mount Olympus. He would pass the frontier post of Heraclion, town of Heracles, and stop at the harbour town of Dion, named after the Greek god Zeus, ancestor of the Macedonian kings, and site of a yearly nine-day festival of the arts in honour of Zeus and the nine Greek Muses. There he would walk through city gates in a wall of brick, down the paved length of a sacred way, between the theatre, gymnasiums and a temple with Doric pillars: suitably, the nearby villages were linked with the myth of Orpheus, the famous bard of Greek legend. He was still in a world of Greek gods and sacrifices, of Greek plays and Greek language, though the natives might speak Greek with a northern accent which hardened 'ch' into 'g', 'th' into 'd' and pronounced King Philip as 'Bilip'. Bearing on up the coast, he would find the plain no less abundant and the towns more defiantly Greek."


Richard Stoneman, ‘Alexander the Great’
Routledge, September 1997


"In favour of the Greek identity of the Macedonians is what we know of their language: the place-names, names of the months and personal names, which are without exception Greek in roots and form. This suggests that they did not merely use Greek as a lingua franca, but spoke it as natives (though with a local accent which turns Philip into Bilip, for example). The Macedonians' own traditions derived their royal house from one Argeas, son of Macedon, son of Zeus, and asserted that a new dynasty, the Temenids, had its origin in the sixth century from emigrants from Argos in Greece, the first of these kings was Perdiccas. This tradition became a most important part of the cultural identity of Macedon. It enabled Alexander I to compete at the Olympic Games (which only true Hellenes were allowed to do).... The Macedonians, then, were racially Greek."


A.B. Bosworth, ‘Conquest and Empire: The Reign of Alexander the Great’
Cambridge University Press, Reissue Edition, March 1993


"Alexander ruled the world as his father had ruled Macedon, concentrating power in his own hands and office to his Companions. In nationality the Companions remained overwhemingly Hellenic."

Nicholas G. L. Hammond, ‘The Macedonian State: The Origins, Institution and History’, Oxford university Press, Reprint Edition, July 1997; 4. The Language of the Macedonians, pgs 413, pgs12-14

"What language did these 'Macedones' speak? The name itself is Greek in root and in ethnic termination. It probably means highlanders,' and it is comparable to Greek tribal names such as 'Orestai' and 'Oreitai,' meaning 'mountain-men.' A reputedly earlier variant, 'Maketai,' has the same root, which means 'high,' as in the Greek adjective 'makednos' or the noun mekos.' The genealogy of eponymous ancestors which Hesiod recorded (p. 3 above) has a bearing on the question of Greek speech. First, Hesiod made Macedon a brother of Magnes; as we know from inscriptions that the Magnetes spoke the Aeolic dialect of the Greek language, we have a predisposition to suppose that the Macedones spoke the Aeolic dialect. Secondly, Hesiod made Macedon and Magnes first cousins of Hellen's three sons - Dorus, Xouthus, and Aeolus - who were the founders of three dialects of Greek speech, namely Doric, Ionic, and Aeolic. Hesiod would not have recored thisrelationship, unless he had believed, probably in the seventh century, that the Macedones were a Greek-speaking people. The next evidence comes from Persia. At the turn of the sixth century the Persians described the tribute-paying peoples of their province in Europe, and one of them was the 'yauna takabara,' which meant the 'Greeks wearing the hat.' There were Greeks in Greek city-states here and there in the province, but they were of various origins and not distinguished by a common hat, the 'kausia.' We conclude that the Persians believed the Macedonians to be speakers of Greek. Finally, in the latter part of the fifth century a Greek historian, Hellanicus, visited Macedonia and modified Hesiod's genealogy by bringing Macedon and his descendants firmly into the Aeolic branch of the Greek-speaking family.

Hesiod, Persia, Hellanicus had no motive for making a false statement about the language of the Macedonians, who were then an obscure and not a powerful people.
Their independent testimonies should be accepted as conclusive. That, however, is not the opinion of most scholars. They disregard or fail to assess the evidence which I have cited, and they turn instead to 'Macedonian' words and names, or/and to literary references. Philologists have studied words which have been cited as Macedonian' in ancient lexica and glossaries, and they have come to no certain conclusion; for some of the words are clearly Greek, and some are clearly not Greek. That is not surprising; for as the territory of the Macedonians expanded, they overlaid and lived with peoples who spoke Illyrian, Paeonian, Thracian and Phrygian, and they certainly borrowed words from them which excited the authors of lexica and glossaries. The philological studies result in a verdict, in my opinion, of 'non liquet.'

The toponyms of the Macedonian homeland are the most significant. Nearly all of them are Greek: Pieria, Lebaea, Heracleum, Dium, Petra, Leibethra, Aegae, Aegydium, Acesae, Acesamenae; the rivers Helicon, Aeson, Leucus, Baphyras, Sardon, Elpe'u's, Mitys; lake Ascuris and the region Lapathus. The mountain names Olympus and Titarium may be pre-Greek; Edessa, the earlier name for the place where Aegae was founded, and its river Ascordus were Phrygian.

The deities worshipped by the Macedones and the names which they gave to the months were predominantly Greek, and there is no doubt that these were not borrowings. To Greek literary writers before the Hellenistic period the Macedonians were 'barbarians.' The term referred to their way of life and their institutions, which were those of the 'ethne' and not of the city-state, and it did not refer to their speech. We can see this in the case of Epirus. There Thucydides called the tribes 'barbarians.' But inscriptions found in Epirus have shown conclusively that the Epirote tribes in Thucydides' lifetime were speaking Greek and used names which were Greek.

In the following century 'barbarian' was only one of the abusive terms applied by Demosthenes to Philip of Macedon and his people. In passages which refer to the Macedonian soldiers of Alexander the Great and the early successors there are mentions of a Macedonian dialect, such as was likely to have been spoken in the original Macedonian homeland. On one occassion Alexander 'called out to his guardsmen in Macedonian ('Makedonisti'), as this [viz. the use of 'Macedonian'] was a signal ('symbolon') that there was a serious riot.' Normally Alexander and his soldiers spoke standard Greek, the 'koine,' and that was what the Persians who were to fight alongside the Macedonians were taught. So the order 'in Macedonian' was unique, in that all other orders were in the 'koine.' It is satisfactorily explained as an order in broad dialect, just as in the Highland Regiment a special order for a particular purpose could be given in broad Scots by a Scottish officer who usually spoke the King's English.

The use of this dialect among themselves was a characteristic of the Macedonian soldiers (rather that the officers) of the King's Army. This point is made
clear in the report - not in itself dependable - of the trial of a Macedonian officer before an Assembly of Macedonians, in which the officer (Philotas) was mocked for not speaking in dialect. In 321 when a non-Macedonian general, Eumenes, wanted to make contact with a hostile group of Macedonian infantrymen, he sent a Macedonian to speak to them in the Macedonian dialect, in order to win their confidence. Subsequently, when they and the other Macdonian soldiers were serving with Eumenes, they expresed their affection for him by hailing him in the Macedonian dialect ('Makedonisti'). He was to be one of themselves. As Curtius observed, 'not a man among the Macedonians could bear to part with a jot of his ancestral customs.' The use of this dialect was one way in which the Macedonians expressed their apartness from the world of the Greek city-states.


Nicholas G. L. Hammond, ‘Philip of Macedon’
Duckworth Publishing, February 1998


"Philip was born a Greek of the most aristocratic, indeed of divine, descent... Philip was both a Greek and a Macedonian, even as Demosthenes was a Greek and an Athenian...The Macedonians over whom Philip was to rule were an outlying family member of the Greek-speaking peoples."

"As subjects of the king the Upper Macedonians were henceforth on the same footing as the original Macedonians, in that they could qualify for service in the King's Forces and thereby obtain the elite citizenship. At one bound the territory, the population and wealth of the kingdom were doubled. Moreover since the great majority of the new subjects were speakers of the West Greek dialect, the enlarged army was Greek-speaking throughout."


Robert Morkot, ‘The Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Greece’
Penguin Publishing USA, January 1997


"Certainly the Thracians and the Illyrians were non-Greek speakers, but in the northwest, the peoples of Molossis (Epirot province), Orestis and Lynkestis spoke West Greek. It is also accepted that the Macedonians spoke a dialect of Greek and although they absorbed other groups into their territory, they were essentially Greeks."


Malcolm Errington, ‘A History of Macedonia’
University of California Press, February 1993, pg 3


"That the Macedonians and their kings did in fact speak a dialect of Greek and bore Greek names may be regarded nowadays as certain."

"Ancient allegations that the Macedonians were non-Greeks all had their origin in Athens at the time of the struggle with Philip II. Then as now, political struggle created the prejudice. The orator Aeschines once even found it necessary, in order to counteract the prejudice vigorously fomented by his opponents, to defend Philip on this issue and describe him at a meeting of the Athenian Popular Assembly as being 'Entirely Greek'. Demosthenes' allegations were lent on appearance of credibility by the fact, apparent to every observer, that the life-style of the Macedonians, being determined by specific geographical and historical conditions, was different from that of a Greek city-state. This alien way of life was, however, common to western Greeks of Epiros, Akarnania and Aitolia, as well as to the Macedonians, and their fundamental Greek nationality was never doubted. Only as a consequence of the political disagreement with Macedonia was the issue raised at all."

"The Molossians were the strongest and, decisive for Macedonia, most easterly of the three most important Epirote tribes, which, like Macedonia but unlike the Thesprotians and the Chaonians, still retained their monarchy. They were Greeks, spoke a similar dialect to that of Macedonia, suffered just as much from the depredations of the Illyrians and were in principle the natural partners of the Macedonian king who wished to tackle the Illyrian problem at its roots."
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alexander makedon



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you really have to polute this forum? You made such a big fuss because there is a book, written in Macedonian and translated in English which documents the fact that todays Macedonians are direct desendents of the ancient. As usual the denial comes from the modern Greeks who continue to ignore evidence that proves that the Macedonians were not Greeks. Its all connected to the Greek occupation of southern Macedonia in 1913 of course.

I can easily post 15 more pages of modern gistorians from the last 150 yeras who cleraly wrote that the Macedonians were NOT Greeks. And speaking of sources there are plenty good ones. Half of the authors you mention, also claim that the Macedonians were NOT Greeks:

http://www.***/AncientMacedonia/ModernHistorians.html

There are 14 modern historians above which clearly do not support that Macedonians were "Greeks." And the latest book goes even deeper.

Facts are facts: There is book out that proves that todays Macedonians are direct desendents of the ancient, and there are countless modern historians who are clear that the Macedonians are not Greek. You can not change that.

Alexander Makedon
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Ptolemy V



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alexander makedon wrote:
Do you really have to polute this forum? You made such a big fuss because there is a book, written in Macedonian and translated in English which documents the fact that todays Macedonians are direct desendents of the ancient. As usual the denial comes from the modern Greeks who continue to ignore evidence that proves that the Macedonians were not Greeks. Its all connected to the Greek occupation of southern Macedonia in 1913 of course.

I can easily post 15 more pages of modern gistorians from the last 150 yeras who cleraly wrote that the Macedonians were NOT Greeks. And speaking of sources there are plenty good ones. Half of the authors you mention, also claim that the Macedonians were NOT Greeks:

http://www.***/AncientMacedonia/ModernHistorians.html

There are 14 modern historians above which clearly do not support that Macedonians were "Greeks." And the latest book goes even deeper.

Facts are facts: There is book out that proves that todays Macedonians are direct desendents of the ancient, and there are countless modern historians who are clear that the Macedonians are not Greek. You can not change that.

Alexander Makedon


Polute the forum? I find it difficult to understand how someone who quotes propaganda and refers to a FYROM propaganda site (www.***) could say that - did I quote anything from a Greek propaganda site? Or from a Greek writer? Take a look at the writers for yourself.

Another point is how can a book written by FYROM sponsored writers and reviewed by such be UNBIASED and OBJECTIVE - I quote directly from the www.*** propaganda site:

"...by the Macedonian historian Aleksandar Donski has just been released. Reviewers of the book are D-r Trpko Bicevski (director of the National Institute of Folklore "Marko Cepenkov" from Skopje) and Dr. Michael Seraphinoff, Professor of humanities and Ph.D. Slavic languages and literature). Publisher of the book is Macedonian Literary Association "Grigor Prlichev."

Do you honestly expect us to believe that these man and organisations could possibly put forth an unbiased and objective viewpoint?

By the way, the authors I mentioned in my previous post state that in their opinion the ancient Macedonians were a Greek people. The same authors which are listed on the propaganda site as "proof" for the counter argument are quoted selectively to suit the motives of that site. For example, can you seriously consider Hammond and Wilcken as supporting that the ancient Macedonians are not Greek. Read the relevant chapters in their books rather than the excerpts on that site which you continually use to justify all your claims.

As for polluting the forum, you can clean up the pollution by not posting propaganda from such sites. As far as academic viewpoints are concerned, there are TWO viewpoints, not just those of Donski and his minions.

So in conclusion, just as you consider you have the right to post about Donski's book, so I also have a right to post about other authors who hold a differing view to that of Donski and yourself.
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