Go to the alexander-the-great.co.uk homepage
alexander-the-great.co.uk
Talk about the Oliver Stone movie "Alexander"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Francisco Bosch, the actor listed to play Bagoas
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    alexander-the-great.co.uk Forum Index -> Other Cast Members
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Helena



Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 16
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

allison wrote:
Arrian wrote about Bagoas as well - including his being a gift to Alexander from Nazarbanez (hope I spelled that right), and the dance after which he is kissed by Alexander after much lively encouragement from the army.

I loved Mary Renault's books - am currently re-reading them in the afterglow of seeing Alexander for the third time (I love this film).

Makes me wonder about a film version of The Persion Boy with Francisco in the lead - not nearly enough Bagoas in the film - but at least he was in the film!! Smile

Hi there everybody-I discovered this site a couple of days ago
I read the Persian boy 5yrs ago. It is my favourite and most moving book I have ever read. Many times I have wondered what a great film it would make.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Catherine X



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 814
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hi there everybody-I discovered this site a couple of days ago


Bet you're glad you did! I think I would have gone mad [madder] without this site to talk about our boy Al on Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Helena



Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 16
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:56 pm    Post subject: Soul mates Reply with quote

Catherine X wrote:
Quote:
Hi there everybody-I discovered this site a couple of days ago


Bet you're glad you did! I think I would have gone mad [madder] without this site to talk about our boy Al on Smile

Catherine I think we must be soul mates Very Happy Once I'd read the Persian boy I was completely hooked. Found out there was a film in the making about four years ago-one hell of a long wait Mad I was a little sceptical at first with the idea of Colin Farrel being cast as Al. But as for Bagoas......well I certainly wasn't dissapointed there!!!Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Catherine X



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 814
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Catherine I think we must be soul mates


This is fantastic, I've met so many 'soul mates' on this site.

I did this personality test the other day and found out that I am a very rare personality type, the Idealist Counsellor [only 2% of people]. I'll find out the website when I get home and tell people here, then we can find out what 'type' we are. It would be interesting to find out if we are all the same type. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Helena



Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 16
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:40 am    Post subject: Bagoas Reply with quote

Oh dear, I seem to have brought your disscussion on Bagoas to a rather abrupt end! Sad
But did you know Bagoas is not the sweet innocent character as portrayed by Mary Renault and Oliver Stone.
In Pete Green's biography on Alexander , Bagoas is constantly refered to as a 'sinister youth' Twisted Evil . (No, I'm not mistaking our lovely Bagoas II for the other Bagoas- 'Bagoas I', the great vizier who assassinated Artaxerces Ochus).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
allison



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 233
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got Mr Green's biog, but have yet to read it. I suppose that Bagoas would have been considered to be a sinister youth in some ways (depending on the viewer's perspective) - being Darius's boy, then Alexanders - being a Persian who has influence over and access to Alexander &c. I'll have to look him up in the book and see what Green says - you have me intigued!! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
allison



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 233
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:47 am    Post subject: Bagoas in the literature Reply with quote

In the Francesco Bosch post, Helena had read the Peter Green biography where Bagoas was referred to as a 'sinister youth'. This had me intrigued, so I set about looking though my sources (I have a small Alexander library which I have collected since I first read Mary Renault and became obsessed with the whole Alexander legend/myth/epic).

Bagoas is referred to in Plutarch and in Quintus Curtius Rufus most famously. This post, I'll refer to the Quintus Curtius Rufus postings about the Eunuch, the second one in particular fitting with Green's use of the word 'sinister' to describe Bagoas.

Quintus Curtius Rufus Book 6, part 5 lines 22 - 23. (from the Penguin Classics book "The History of Alexander" by Quintus Curtius Rufus.

"Four days later Alexander returned to camp. He now sent home Artabazus, doubling the honours Darius had conferred on him. Arriving then at the city in Hyrcania where the palace of Darius stood, he was met by Nabarzanes, who had been given a safe conduct and who now brought Alexander lavish gifts, including Bagoas, an exceptionally good-looking eunuch in the very flower of his youth. Darius had had a sexual relationship with him and presently Alexander did, too. It was Bagoas' please that did the most to pardon Nabarzanes."

Quintus Curtius Rufus Book 10, part 1 lines 22-38.

"They next came to Parsagada, city of a Persian tribe whose satrap was Orsines, a man pre-eminent among all the barbarians for his nobility and wealth. He traced his lineage from Cyrus, the former Persian king, and his wealth was partly inherited from his ancestors and partly amassed by himself during his long tenure of the satrapy. Orsines met Alexander with all manner of gifts, which he intended to give not only to the king but to his friends as well. With him were some herds of horses, already broken in, chariots trimmed with silver and gold, expensive furniture, fine jewels, heavy gold vessels, purple garments and 3,000 talents of silver coin. However, it was his great generosity that occasioned the barbarian's death. Although he had honoured all the king's friends with giftss greater than they could have wished for, he paid no court to the eunuch Bagoas, who by now had gained Alexander's affection through putting his body at his service. He was advised by certain people of Alexander's strong attachment to Bagoas, but he replied that he paid his respects to the king's friends, not his whores, and that it was not the Persian custom to regard as men those who allowed themselves to be sexually used as women. When he heard this, the eunuch directed the power gained from his shameful self-degredation against the life of an innocent man of supreme distinction. He furnished the most worthless of Orsines' people with false accusations, telling them to divulge these only when he gave the order. Meanwhile, whenever no one else was in earshot, he filled the king's credulous ears, but concealed the reason for his rancour so that his charges would carry more weight. Though not yet under suspicion, Orsines was already losing Alexander's favour. In fact, he was being tried in secret, ignorant of the unseen danger, and the unconscionable male whore did not forget his scheming even when he was submitting to the shame of the sexual act for whenever he had roused the king's passion for him, he would accuse Orsines on one occasion of greed, on another even of treason " I'll break of here - the next section describes the opening of Cyrus's tomb by Alexander to find the tomb ransacked when he had expected to find Cyrus buried with his things. The passage quotes Bagoas as telling Alexander "what's surprising about kings' sepulchres being empty when satraps' houses cannot hold all the gold taken from them? Speaking for myself, I had never set eyes on the tomb before, but I was told by Darius that 3,000 talents were buried with Cyrus. That explains Orsines' generosity towards you: unable to keep his loot with impunity, he wanted to curry favour with you by giving it away".
Back to passage 36."Bagoas had already roused Alexander to anger when the men he had charged to assist his undertaking came up. Bagoas on one side, and those he had suborned on the other, filled the king's ears with false accusations and, before he could even suspect that charges were being laid against him. Orsines was arrested. Not satisfied with seeing an innocent man executed, the eunuch seized him as he went to his death. Looking at him, Orsines said: 'I had heard that women once were rulers in Asia but this really is something new - a eunuch as king! Such was the end of the most noble of Persioans, a man who was not only innocent but who had also shown the king exemplary kindness"

This episode appears to be where Bagoas appears to be a sinister influence, and would probably explain why Peter Green called him a sinister youth.

Quintus Curtius Rufus's obvious distaste for Bagoas did not appear to have been shared by many in Alexander's Army, as the passages in Plutarch suggest.

Plutarch's 'The Age of Alexander' published by Penguin Classics. 'Alexander', passage 67.

"Then when Alexander arrived at the palace of Gedrosia, he again allowed the army time to rest and celebrated another festival. It is said that one day, after he had drunk well, he went to watch some contests in dancing and singing and that his favourite Bagoas won the prize: thereuapon the young man came across the theatre, sill in his performer's costume and wearing his crown as victor, and seated himself beside the king. At the sight, the Macedonians applauded loudly and shouted to Alexander to kiss the winner, until at last the king put his arms around him and kissed him."

NGL Hammond in his book "Sources for Alexander the Great: An Analyses of Plutarch's 'Life' and Arrian's 'Anabasis Alexandrou'. (published by Cambridge University Press) determined that Plutarch's source for this episode as Dicaearchus, whose focus was more Alexander's love for Bagoas rather than Alexander's drunkeness - as in Plutarch.

In his biography "Alexander the Great - The Invisible Enemy: A Biography", John Maxwell O'Brien (Routledge publishers) points out that Bagoas's name was on several lists (such as a navel roll call, and a list of residents) which indicated that he travelled with Alexander. He pointed out that Bagoas "belonged to a special category of people who posed no real threat to the king, and who owed everything they had to him. This seems to have been an optimal relationship from Alexander's point of view. Bagoas benefitted as well, and not just as a recepient of Alexander's largesse. The king's good will protected Bagoas from Europeans, many of whom may have found the notion of eunuchism grating, although under the circumstances they kept any negetive thoughts to themselves." (page 112)

Any others?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Helena



Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 16
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:39 am    Post subject: Bagoas Reply with quote

Thanks for all the info Allison. QCR's biography goes into so much more depth. But I can't find anything more on this subject. Bagoas does seem quite an evil, sinister little fella Twisted Evil , quite unlike Mary
Renault's portrayal of him.
Changing the subject, I have just visited the most hilarius website, 'Phlog-Utelena'-Photographs of dolls dressed up as Alexander and Bagoas in the most compromising of positions Laughing Laughing Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ysoria



Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well for anyone who's hunting for Francisco Bosch pics, heres a site:

http://www.metrogirl.com/wraeththu-seven-sins/english_news_franciscobosch.htm



he also happens to share my birthday (5 Oct) Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Adriv



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1144
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2005 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I´m not very fond of Bagoas. But his pic is interesting, very skinny.

My birthday is Oct 10. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Ysoria



Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adriv wrote:
I´m not very fond of Bagoas. But his pic is interesting, very skinny.

My birthday is Oct 10. Very Happy


hehehe....thats easy to remember. 10-10 Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
frantic



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the interesting reading, yeah, the pics too, of course. There are more pics available than I would have thought, but it's a good thing, no? Anyway, my question...it's a bit fuzzy what really happened to Bagoas after Alexander's death...so perhaps someone here can fill in the blanks. What happened to Bagoas? Where did he go? Perhaps someone with better historical knowledge than I.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adriv



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1144
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question! I really want to know.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
apelles



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 1152

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2005 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frantic wrote:
Thanks for the interesting reading, yeah, the pics too, of course. There are more pics available than I would have thought, but it's a good thing, no? Anyway, my question...it's a bit fuzzy what really happened to Bagoas after Alexander's death...so perhaps someone here can fill in the blanks. What happened to Bagoas? Where did he go? Perhaps someone with better historical knowledge than I.


He,s never mentioned in history again Sad so we have no idea what happened to him.I really hope he was o.k. after Alexander,s death,after all he would only be around 23.The Persian Boy is my favourite book,so I suppose I,m always going to see Bagoas through Mary,s eyes.By the way Frantic,welcome to the forum.Hope you have fun here Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
frantic



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adriv wrote:
Good question! I really want to know.


Seems like no one knows.

apelles wrote:
He,s never mentioned in history again Sad so we have no idea what happened to him.I really hope he was o.k. after Alexander,s death,after all he would only be around 23.The Persian Boy is my favourite book,so I suppose I,m always going to see Bagoas through Mary,s eyes.By the way Frantic,welcome to the forum.Hope you have fun here Very Happy


Well then one can only imagine what happened. Perhaps someone took pity? Perhaps he was sold as common slave, returned to the harem, murdered, or perhaps he ended up under someone else's protection? The list grows longer. But as he sort of vanished from history just like that, it could mean he did not live long (disappeared) once Alexander was dead. Then again, he was not important to the Greeks so perhaps they had no reason to mention him again with Alexander gone? Perhaps they thought it was a disgrace/shame that Alexander took him, a Persian eunuch boy, as a lover? One can only imagine how uncertain he must have felt about his position amongst the Greeks with his protector gone...what was going to happen to him, would he live or die. Most likely he was tossed aside and forgotten.

The more I think of it the more I want to know, so very frustrating. Better find something else to ponder.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    alexander-the-great.co.uk Forum Index -> Other Cast Members All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group