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Which is the best book about Alexandar?
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Sikander



Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:16 pm    Post subject: Alexander's Death Reply with quote

Greetings,

You said: "Alexander was poisoned by Antipater giving orders to his sons to do so."

There is much speculation today (and in the past) regarding how Alexander died. The debate seems equally divided among those who feel he was poisoned and those who feel it was disease. In the disease camp, there are some excellent theories being bandied, taking into consideration the few symptoms indicated in the sources and what is known about disease today.

The best we can say is that we do not know for certain what killed Alexander; no clear consensus was drawn among the ancient writers and his contemporaries do not seem to have shared their own views. Unfortunately, while the ancient writers had access to the works of Alexander's contemporaries, modern writers only have access to the sources (that *used* the original sources) that were written some time after Alexander's death.

The poisoning theory has developed more around the political factions that developed during and after Alexander's death but disease theories are as arguable based on the cited symptoms and the fact that malaria and other diseases were prevalent in the regions Alexander was occupying.

Regards,
Sikander
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1270
Location: Greece/USA/Italy/UK/

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexander died when he sent Craterus back home to replace Antipater as his deputy. Moreover Antipater was ordered to bring new army in Asia to replace the men sent home. It's very clear that Alexander wanted him out of the country. Antipater understood he was losing everything.
Exactly this moment Alexander died. Hm...yes I suspect that Antipater and his sons killed Alexander for their own good. It's obvious, isn't it?
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Sikander



Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:28 am    Post subject: Poisoning vrs disease Reply with quote

Greetings,

"Hm...yes I suspect that Antipater and his sons killed Alexander for their own good. It's obvious, isn't it?"

Not really, since the arguments for disease are as convincing. The bottom line is, we cannot state, without reservaiton, that the cause of death is *certain*.

We can *suspect* poisoning and speculate on who and why, but not cite it as fact.

Regards,
Sikander
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know sometimes one feels that something is true. I just feel that Alexander was killed. What else can I say?
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Adriv



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1144
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know what.... I feel the same. But at the same time I want to think he died of a weaken condition. Confused
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really understand some scholars when they say that Alexander was NOT poisoned. And they believe it and say that's TRUE. Why do they say so? How can they be so sure? I say I believe Alexander was poisoned but, of course, if someone proves the opposite I will accept it. So far nothing is certain about how he died and I'm getting fed up with all these smart scholars who don't sit down to discuss the possibility but laugh at people who think that Alexander was poisoned.
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Sikander



Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings Joanna,,

I do not think scholars laugh at those who suggest Alexander was poisoned. What they generally say is that the symptoms of his demise point more to disease or illness than poison.

They take into consideration that fact that malaria and other diseases were probably common throughout the areas Alexander travelled, that Alexander's own health was, due to injury, not at its peak and the manner in which he is described as dying and most reach a *possible* conclusion of illness.

You are correct- the only true thing anyone can say is that there is no certainty of how Alexander died. But there are hints that we can explore. This is why there are such lengthy discussions both all over the internet and in academic circles regarding his death. But outside of some of the more radical claims (Alexander was Chinese, "Melissa" was Alexander's true love. "Alexander came to believe in the "one True God", etc), most scholars try to approach the various theories with a degree of reason and acknowledgement that we simply cannot know anything for certain, but that hopefully, over time, we can reach the most plausible conclusion..

Regards,
Sikander
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1270
Location: Greece/USA/Italy/UK/

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sikander wrote:
Greetings Joanna,,

I do not think scholars laugh at those who suggest Alexander was poisoned. What they generally say is that the symptoms of his demise point more to disease or illness than poison.

They take into consideration that fact that malaria and other diseases were probably common throughout the areas Alexander travelled, that Alexander's own health was, due to injury, not at its peak and the manner in which he is described as dying and most reach a *possible* conclusion of illness.

You are correct- the only true thing anyone can say is that there is no certainty of how Alexander died. But there are hints that we can explore. This is why there are such lengthy discussions both all over the internet and in academic circles regarding his death. But outside of some of the more radical claims (Alexander was Chinese, "Melissa" was Alexander's true love. "Alexander came to believe in the "one True God", etc), most scholars try to approach the various theories with a degree of reason and acknowledgement that we simply cannot know anything for certain, but that hopefully, over time, we can reach the most plausible conclusion..

Regards,
Sikander



Thanks, Sikander, for answering my post.
As, I was saying, I don't like that certainty that some scholars show when they talk about what caused his death.
We are not certain. Period!
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Sikander



Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:56 am    Post subject: Death by Speculation <smiling> Reply with quote

Greetings,

"As, I was saying, I don't like that certainty that some scholars show when they talk about what caused his death.
We are not certain. Period!"

And I agree. However, the same can be said of those who insist he was poisoned. There were many factors that could have contributed to Alexander's death of disease. There were factors that could be construed to indicate he wa spoisoned. However, in citing Antipater, we cannot know what *Antipater* truly felt, nor whether he was being replaced against his will, nor whether his replacement wanted to go back to Makedon..

The best we can do is look at all the factors: overall health, diseases common to an area, symptoms, etc as well as the political climate, the factions among the Diadochi and such and go from there. And recognize, on all sides, that the best we can do is speculate rather than state categorically.

I suspect most scholars and academics, like most hobbyists, hold their own theory and tend to interpret the data to slant it toward their pet theory.. a human trait, I fear, and one that only further research and/or new found evidence will alter. Hopefully, once new evidence *is* presented, we will all adjust our theories accordingly!

Regards,
Sikander
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joanna



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you.

What I want to say about me it's just that I feel Alexander was poisoned. Things might have happened differently, I know. It's probably true. But the timing of his death, his resistance to worse healthy conditions he was exposed before and survived and above all his carelessness to take care of himself and be more cautious about people and their motives around him (my theory is that he felt devastated after Hephaestion's death; Alexander would never be the same any more) make the assassination a strong possibility.
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Cynisca



Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Living in Yorkshire UK - ê tan ê epi tas

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I agree with the viewpoint that Alexander was poisoned, his passing resembled that of Hephaestion in too many respects.
I did a little research on this myself at one point and found a few coincidences that led me to believe that what could have poisoned Alexander was
1. something originally intended to heal/help him
2. something connected with immortality - ie giving Alexander a chance to achieve his Godhead through his passing. This also tied in with his mummification.
Strangely enough there was a tale of two other people, I felt was based on Alexander and Roxane. If that was the case it was somebody connected to Roxane who gave Alexander the poison, but whether it was at her bidding (possibly unintentionally) I don't know... Wink
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Cynisca



Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 605
Location: Living in Yorkshire UK - ê tan ê epi tas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:46 pm    Post subject: Typical...! Reply with quote

On Saturday morning I attended a talk at the local library by Dr Joann Fletcher, an Egyptologist, who was discussing ancient Egypt's links with Yorkshire.
I thought her name sounded familiar, but forgot to check on the internet before leaving for the talk.
Not only do I have her book on Nefertiti, she was co author of another book I have...Alexander The Great: Son of the Gods.. Shocked
Damnit all..!
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Adriv



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 1144
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We will find out the truth about his death when we find the lost body of Alexander. Which we will never know.
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Alita



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 101
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many Greeks, especially Macedonians (eg MacedoniaOnTheWeb.com) think that he was poisoned. One poster made a point that Alexander got sick, seemed to be recovering but then lapsed again before he died. This would point to a re-poisoning by the assailant. When you think about this, it makes sense to a degree.

The possibilities can really be stretched out, depending on how far you can exercise your imagination. What if Roxane played a part? After all, Alexander married another wife after her and we don't really know what kind of person she was. Maybe she had a relative who thought she was being shamed or something and took revenge. You could roam over the possible scenarios till the cows came home...
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Alita



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 101
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many Greeks, especially Macedonians (eg MacedoniaOnTheWeb.com) think that he was poisoned. One poster made a point that Alexander got sick, seemed to be recovering but then lapsed again before he died. This would point to a re-poisoning by the assailant. When you think about this, it makes sense to a degree.

The possibilities can really be stretched out, depending on how far you can exercise your imagination. What if Roxane played a part? After all, Alexander married another wife after her and we don't really know what kind of person she was. Maybe she had a relative who thought she was being shamed or something and took revenge. You could roam over the possible scenarios till the cows came home...
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