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Alexander Reviews-SPOILERS AHEAD!
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rtms



Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 72
Location: canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:04 am    Post subject: Alexander Reviews-SPOILERS AHEAD! Reply with quote

Decided to start this since advance screenings are going on and some reviews are showing up on messageboards. Here is one from the IMDB-Overall it doesn't sound good but remember one person's opinion doesn't make a bad movie. SPOILERS AHEAD- DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IN SOME SCENES!!!!Highlight to see.( Sorry but the white font colour doesn't completely make the text invisiable against the grey blue back ground) Curtesy of CapnRon 10 SPOOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS..............................................................



I saw this film last night at a screening. Oliver Stone was there and he did a little Q and A afterwards. To sum this up is simple - this movie was not good at all. I am a big fan of Oliver Stone's work and this is by far his worst effort. I think even Stone was disappointed in its final cut since he seemed really somber during the interview.

Now is when you all say "well, whats wrong with it?". Well, first of all the story is very long-winded. Throughout the movie there are is at least 1 hour total of exposition by different people. Its kind of like watching a play where the actor looks off screen and talks and talks and talks and talks. Actually, the movie starts off like this with Anthony Hopkins character acting as a teacher telling the story of Alexander. This scene seems to go on for at least 10 minutes. This is a great setup to the way this film ends up.

Also, the story is very convoluded. Its as if Stone couldnt decide if he wanted to make a movie about the conquests of Alexander of if he wanted to make a movie about why he was so tormented. Over and over again we see Alexander crying wondering why he is alone or why his father didnt like him or what is wrong with his mom or why he can't be loved, etc. Its quite annoying and it really takes away from the whole "hero" thing.

The accents are terrible. All of the actors seem to have an accent except Val Kilmer and Jared Leto. Jolie decides to sound like a spaniard and Colin just tones his Irish down a bit. Its all really weird and I don't know why you would have an accent in a historical movie.

Most of all, the overall tone of the movie including the music and cinematography are really bipolar. The movie starts off being shot very traditionally then 2 hours into the movie Stone decides to start shooting this film like Natural Born Killers with infared camera shots and scenes washed in red. Very strange and out of place. Also, the music is just awful. It is all keyboard based and sounds like it came from a cheesy 80's film. Not only is it crappy keyboard but the mood is always wrong. When you see the film (if you do) you will understand what I am talking about.

So thats what I have to say about it. I will check this board throughout the days and answer any questions that get posted.

PS - I know a lot of you out there are going to ask this so I am going to answer it right now. Yes, Rosario Dawson gets naked in this movie.



As for the bisexual stuff, be prepard to be disappionted. As well I have to say I called the Bagoas stuff perfectly!!

Highlight:
Thats the really strange part. I am not sure how people are going to react to this but: Yes and No. It never comes out and says he is gay and it never comes out and says that he and the Leto character are lovers in the non-platonic sense but it sure does allude to it throughout the whole movie. His mom mentions early that people talk about how he spends more time with his friend then with girls. Then there are some really "romantic" scenes with him and Leto talking about how they will die together and how much in love they are with each other. Then it looks like they will come together and kiss but they just hug.

So to answer your question, I dont think its "clearly" shown, but its rather obvious. Oh, he does kiss the unich (sp?) during a celebration, but its shown pretty much as a peck on the lips.

Again, tough to say. He does get married and we see him quite explicitly having sex with her. But there are some scenes where she gets mad at him because she thinks he loves the Leto character more than her. Basically if you take the 2 sides of romance being sex and love - it shows Alexander having sex with a woman but it never shows anything sexual with a man. However, it shows Alexander in love with Leto in the way the are together and it never show Alexander having real love for any woman. It sounds confusing, I know. But thats the best way I can explain it.
There really is no tending. There is a scene similar to that. Alexander takes off all of his clothes and gets under the covers. Bagoas snuffs out the candle in the room and stands there and Alexander reaches his arm out towards him as if to be reaching for him, then the scene cuts.


As for other performances?

Highlight:
Overall, I would say the performances were average to pretty good. Like I mentioned before, the accents were really hard to handle so I think it distracted me from some of the acting. Jolie did a really good job as the strong mother. She really steals the screen when she is on it and that is exactly what she is supposed to do. Val Kilmer is good as Phillip but he seems a little young. Its hard to see him as father to Alexander since Kilmer looks like he is only 30 or 35 and Colin looks 25. Colin does well enough but he doesnt really portray the fire of Alexander like I thought he would. I was really looking for a Mel Gibson William Wallace type of performance full of passion and leadership. But since the script calls for it, Colin acts less self-confident and therefor seems a little weak.

In my opinion the best performance was by Jared Leto. I think he really portrayed the love he had for Alexander perfectly. He didnt have a bunch of lines but his emotions were so clear in his posture that you really believed that he worshiped Alexander.


You can read it all here
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0346491/board/flat/13036691

So from the sounds of it, concerning the sex scenes- Stone cut it just as the critics accused him of. Then again I have heard that he had to cut a whole lot of this film just to get it down to a reasonable time.So maybe the studio made him do it, maybe not. I really really hope Stone goes all out on the DVD for this one and gives us a Directors cut.
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rtms



Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 72
Location: canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SPOILERS ALERT! HIGHLIGHT TO READ!

Yet some more stuff concerning Bagoas and Alexander and such:

Quote:
As for the bisexuality, since they never really come out and say that he likes men sexually, its hard to come to any conclusion about his preferences dictating his desires. His urge to conquer is positioned as if it was always there. He tells his father that he is going to be great and fulfills that promise.


Quote:
I never claimed that they show Alexander and Bagoas about to have sex. I said that Alexander lays in bed and as the lights go out he reaches his hand out to Bagoas. I guarantee you that there will be many different interperations of what that means. When he goes to bed Alexander is very depressed and so maybe he just needs comforting. I took it since he got naked that they were going to have sex, but since they don't show Bagoas touch his hand or get in bed with him, I am just assuming what happens next. You could argue either side of it with what is given for you to see.

And the love talk between Alexander and Hephaistion is just that - talk. Hephaistion has some lines to Alexander talking about his eyes but other than that, you could honestly say that it is the same things that a man could say about his brother.

I know this is confusing. I was confused as well. This will be one of the big things that is talked about is how Stone left himself an out to say that he showed that Alexander was gay, but can also say that he never meant for people to see it that way. It will be interesting to hear his defense


Bogoas Dance:

Quote:
As for the Bagoas dance, it was kind of like a stripper dance. I really don't know how to describe it other than that. He contorts himself and dances all slinky-like to Alexander and the others. Its at this point that the crowd cries for Alexander to kiss him and he gives him a peck on the lips to the crowds delight.
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Jenna Corinth



Joined: 22 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is just one guy's opinion on what he saw, one opinion isn't law.

The Bagoas stuff he described sounded clearly sexual to me.
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rtms



Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There may have been a sexual encounter with the cut bed scene, but other than the sexy dance, nothing happens between the two including the "kiss" which again is not romantic or in a romantic setting or sexual but a congrats kiss. If Stone indeed was told to tone it down and cut the sex out with the males than the Alexander -Bagoas relationship suffered, while the Alexander- Hephestion relationship is ambigous at best with multipule interpertations to please everyone. We won't know for ourselves until we see it. Very Happy
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Jenna Corinth



Joined: 22 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you can believe what you want to believe. The Alexander/Bagoas scene in his bedroom has no other interpretation for me. The only you would read that as a *** scene is if you specifically didn't want to and made an effort to think that way.
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kida_greenleaf



Joined: 21 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's an article in the chicago sun times about the raciness of the film. not a review though. in it oliver states that there were no cuts made that he didn't want. interesting.

looks like it's not always about sex! huh. it seems alexander did some other things besides boys.

i need to lay off the renault. Rolling Eyes
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Cid



Joined: 25 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was the first replier to that thread on imdb. I´m Tarawa and I asked all about that bisexual stuff.

There was another one who wrote a review and said it sucked, but that person was very vague on details and he/she likes Hillary Duff movies so i don´t take that review seriously.

One thing that bothers me. If the movie is bad, and what he/she says is right than why is it the foremost oscar contender from Warner Bros?
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Vecchiolarry



Joined: 21 Dec 2003
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Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:21 am    Post subject: Trust Your Own Review Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,

When it comes right down to it - trust your own review, when you finally see the film.
Everyone has his/her own likes, dislikes and preferences.
I, personally, love these old historic movies and go to see them all. Some were good, but most were bad; but I loved them all. There's something to notice and concentrate on in every movie - the costumes, the scenery, the music or the dialogue. And, there's always something good in every movie and something bad, too.
So - chill out and see the picture for yourselves. Then, give us your viewpoints.

Something to ponder -- every movie critic is a failed and frustrated and over-opinionated actor, producer and director and they only criticize because they can't do anything else themselves; and they only ever write bad reviews because that's what sells newspapers or TV shows and they're only guaranteeing and salvaging their own jobs..... Don't ever trust someone else's views - only your own!!!!

Regards,
Larry
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rtms



Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 72
Location: canada

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't say the the bed scene wasn't or didn't imply that there could have been a sexual encounter there, just that it was cut. For sure it could imply they were going to have sex.
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birdiemom94



Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here, here, Larry!! Good point and very well said!

No critic that puts pen to paper can ever equal the most important opinions of all...our own. These are the opinions that count and the ones we really should trust. I agree with Larry, see the film and make up your own mind.

Dara:)
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rtms



Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yet another brief review, this one about some very brief nudity on Colins part:

Quote:
FULL-FRONTAL FARRELL

By LOU LUMENICK

November 9, 2004 -- HEADS up. Actor Colin Farrell's manhood - which made headlines when it was excised from another film earlier this year - finally turns up in a full-monty scene in Oliver Stone's "Alexander," opening Nov. 23.
Journalists who attended the sword-and-sandals epic's press junket over the weekend in Los Angeles report that there's a brief full-frontal glimpse of Farrell in a scene depicting the Macedonian emperor's wedding night with his wife, Roxane, played by Rosario Dawson.

"It's nothing to be ashamed of," said one male scribe of the Irish actor's flaccid appendage, "but people weren't gasping at it, either."

Audience members of both sexes reportedly cheered the member's appearance in "A Home at the End of the World," prompting producers to cut the scene as too distracting - it hasn't even surfaced in deleted scenes in the film's recent DVD release.

As in the earlier film, Farrell plays a bisexual character in "Alexander," but there are no steamy man-on-man scenes with Alexander's lover, Hephaestion, early audiences say.

"It's clear from context and the way they look at each other that he's the love of Alexander's life," said one journalist. "But while they share a few hugs, there's no sex or even a single kiss."

Alexander does kiss an effeminate-looking male servant full on the mouth while dancing in front of his troops
.
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rtms



Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on your side in this Jenna Corinth, I too wanted to see some acceptance of Alexanders Bisexuality and even a real representation of it on screen, but from all the reviews coming in, it seems Stone went with the ambigous concerning Alexander and Hephestion and seems to have outright cut any thing concerning Alexander and Bagoas with the bedroom scene.I hope it's not as bad as the reviewers are portraying it and that it's clear what's happening between them. Maybe our European members will get a uncut version of it in their theaters.Truce?
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Jenna Corinth



Joined: 22 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the A/H and A/B stuff doesn't sound in any way ambiguous to me. Not one bit.

Reviewers have said each time (even if their opinion of the film wasn't favourable) that Hephaistion is clearly portrayed as the 'love of Alexander's life'. This is all fine with me.
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rtms



Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More reviews are coming in from the screenings , these ones from AICN, and so far not one of them are really postive. More mixed to awful. This is really looking bad, if just no name reviewers are saying it's no good, what are the real critics going say!

http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=18782
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Renold de Chatillion



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so. first in this collection. ) 4/5

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/alexander/?show=all
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