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Was really Alexander homosexual?
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zoisnick



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 15
Location: ATHENS, GREECE

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THOSE WHO SAY THAT ALEXANDER WAS HOMOSEXUAL DO SO BECAUSE IT PLEASES THEM.
IT IS THE SAME TACTIC THAT OTHER GROUPS EMPLOY ALSO.
AFTER SOMEONE IS DEAD THEY CLAIM HIM TO BE THEIRS.
THAT WAY THEY PROVE TO BE WORTHY OF NOTICE.
I NEVER HEARD THOUGH ANY ARMY OF HOMOSEXUALS TO CONQUER ANYTHING EVERLASTING.
IF I AM WRONG YOU CAN PROVE IT.
ANSWER WITH EVIDENCE NOT WITH ANGER.
IN GREECE WE STILL BELIEVE IN FRIENDSHIP - WE DO NOT CONFUSE IT WITH SEXUAL RELATIONS. LOVING A FRIEND DOES NOT MEAN SOMETHING SEXUAL.
ALL GREAT CIVILIZATIONS FELL FIRSTLY DUE TO MORAL DECAY.
CIVILIZATIONS GREW WHEN PEOPLE BELIEVED IN GOD, COUNTRY AND FAMILY (NOT SEX , DRUGS AND ROCK AND ROLL).
THERE IS NONE TO BLAME BUT OURSELVES.
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Kevin
Site Admin


Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 630
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please do not post everything in Upper Case. Thank you.
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peritas



Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

though homosexuality was widespread in ancient greece(and did not carry any of the social prejudices it does today)it is a misconception to think that all students had to share their tutors'bed.Aristotle was Alexander third tutorthe first one was Olympias' uncle,called Leonidas(Aristotle,the son of Phillip's phycisian,took over whan Alexander was a teenager,and tutored him together with others in a place called Miesa-excavated archeological site).

It is in my opinion very unfair to think of Hephestion as"Alexander's lover".Not because they werent lovers,they(probably)were.And not unfair to Alexander,but unfair to Hephestion who is one of the most underrated men in history.
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tintin



Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 24
Location: Winchester, MA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct, I should have written "...would share everything, including, SOMETIME, the bed." Embarassed
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Panos



Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 1
Location: London, Hellas, lol

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of people think that its no big thing and why are people getting angry that people are refferring to Alexander as gay. It happens that in todays society people think that if your o.k with homosexuality you are a modern and liberated person. The fact is that there are still people with morals that believe taking it up the back door is nasty. Also as a Greek and I believe speaking on behalf of other Greeks, I do not appreciate other people who do not have a clue about history and just agree with everything they have seen on tv. All of a sudden everyone has an opinion. Go and research history first before you have an opinion you firstly must know about the subject your talking about.
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Tino



Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 292
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a good article addressing the issue:
http://www.***/alexander.asp?paraID=42
Do I agree with it? not 100% but it has some good points
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you
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Alec



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 69
Location: Paris (France)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: If i can... Reply with quote

New but still interested in what everybody said here...
I know for sure that modern greeks hate their history aspect where it's said that ancient greeks were bisexual... I can understand this but i think it shouldn't prevent people from admitting the truth... They are so many historical documents and searches that came to prove it !
We have vases (ancient greek) which have sex between men on them. It's obvious that this belongs to greek history. But please don't be so homophobic because of history. No one ever said current greeks all were homosexuals! (plus where the shame in that, nobody cares).
Well here's not exactly the topic but i wanted to make it clear to avoid other verbal fights here.
And then, yes, Alexander was probably bi (maybe homo) but he surely was as it was normal to be in his society.
Alec
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Alec



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 69
Location: Paris (France)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:38 pm    Post subject: a little more... Reply with quote

Besides, the relationships between men in ancient greek are so well explained in the movie.. It's more than just sex, it's a love that transcends men : a character tells it allows them to get over everything, to win, to be better then.
As said in the link posted by Tino, it's not as current bi-***.
Alec
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manos



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 68
Location: london

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1-Is not that greeks hate ***. Let's say that in the movie Alexander the Great is black. Nothing wrong with blacks, but Alexander was not black. So nothing wrong with ***, but noone has a historical recorded arguement that Alexander was homosexual.
2-Do you know the french expresion about Greeks... who is homophobic then? Wink
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Alec



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 69
Location: Paris (France)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:01 am    Post subject: Yes Reply with quote

1- I'm ok with the point, nobody's sure that Alexander actually was bi or gay... But many have suspicion of it. For the point he wasn't black, it's obvious... lol. Well, i guess this topic has sufficiently discussed that point...

2- I'm sorry to contradict but greeks doesn't like being said gay... A friend of mine who lives there for several years explained me that they don't like it... Saying they're homophobic is maybe a little bit much but the idea exists...

3- They're expressions about *** in every country, the french one is not homophobic, it's "greekophobic", what, i agree, is totally idiot. We should be able to love one another Wink

Alec

PS: thanks for your post, manos
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Hefestion19



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 104
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexander was not hetero, homo, or bi. Why not? Because in his times, there arent this words...

Many studies said that, human being, in his own nature, is attracted by "beauty", and that beauty can be masculine or feminine. Alexander, like many other men in that age, was free and had no cultural borders. He felt attracted by beauty of his friend Hephestion, and they felt a strong friendship and love between them.

False? Who can say that this love was false? There are many things that confirm this relation. Alexander and Hephestion were inseparable. Alex dreamed to imitate the history of Achiles and Patroclus, with Heph. He always had in hand a book of "the Iliade". The confussion about the queen mother of Persia, when Alex said "dont worry, he's also alexander" was real, so we can see what signified had Heph to Alexander.

When Hephestion dies in Ecbatana, Alexander ordered to cover all the city walls of black cloths, and make very important funeral games to honor him, only comparable to games honoring the Kings dead. We also can see that Hephestion was the real love of Alexander's life in that case..

So, was Alexander gay? No. The words "gay" and "homosexual" are modern words based on Freud theories. What was Alexander then?
He only was a free Human Being, who has not moral or religious borders to do what he really felt and love the person who really loved, would be man or would be woman. In that case, it was a man, his best friend.

What is the problem if the great love of his life was a man? This fact makes him less man or less masculine than he was? No. He was more masculine, more courageous and braver than many of many Kings before, but he loved his closer friend. Why cant you accept this fact?

Im really sad, because I see that ancient greek culture, 2000 years ago, was more open minded than our society is now. Our society put all us in a jail, and doesn't let us follow the way of our feelings.
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Catherine X



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 814
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very good summary of this subject, Hefestion19. Who cares whether people like men or women, there are more important things to worry about in life. People should just get on with their lives, life is too short to worry Smile
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cassanders mum



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 64
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:21 pm    Post subject: homo/hetero/bi Reply with quote

What differance does it make? Why does our culture always need to put a label on a person, put them in a box? We should judge an individual for themselves and the character, kindess, love, sensitivity they have and nothing else. At the risk of repeating myself the point regarding relationshipl preferance was explained by Aristotle in the classroom scene when he pointed out that a meeting of minds was what counted not the physical meeting but all these so called armchair historians who have watched the film seem to have overlooked these most important few lines. Go watch it again folks and listen this time
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Hefestion19



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 104
Location: Valencia, Spain

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im glad that Catherine and Cassanders mum agree with me...

On the other hand, Im sad because I don't understand how some people can critizise a beautiful movie like Alexander, only by its sexual references. I don't understand how people can be so close minded about this...

I have to thank to Oliver Stone for his courage on make this film, who contributes to people be aware of that loving a man, is a natural thing. There is not a best example... Alexander, one of the bravest warriors of the history, loved a man, and he was not "less man" about this fact.

Tanks for your understanding... Wink
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