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For those who saw the movie
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vulgaren



Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 140
Location: Skopje, Republic of Macedonia

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lala did you like the film?
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.alexander-the-great.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7445#7445 Have a look here. It wasn't "Gone With the Winds" but you can see my opinion in the above link. Did you like it?
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tintin



Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 24
Location: Winchester, MA, USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexandrus wrote:
This goes for all who hated the movie but that out of respect, don't say what they really want to say. I will do it for you, I will be the one to trash this film like it deserves.


At least you have learned not to shout...
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Rachel25



Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoyed this film quite a bit and I'm sorry that the portrayal of Roxann by Dawson ruined for you Octavia. That's unfortunate,and your right it would seem inexcusable considering the attention to detail that was in the movie.

Although from what I read Stone was looking at it from a different angle, he cast Dawson because he felt there was a resemblence between her and Jolie, and he wanted to emphasis Alexander not being able to escape his mother.
Yeah, I don't see much resemblence myself, and if it's there why hit us over the head by painting snakes on her nude body?

I can understand it being distracting enough to take away from the film for you. After all, if it's solely about the 'resemblance' of the two actresses then why didn't they just have Dawson and Jolie switch roles and have Dawson play a princess from Epiros? I wonder what the reaction would have been then?
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Although from what I read Stone was looking at it from a different angle, he cast Dawson because he felt there was a resemblence between her and Jolie, and he wanted to emphasis Alexander not being able to escape his mother.
Where did you read this?!! Did O.S. say that himself? Cause I thought so without reading any of his words!


Rachel25 wrote:
...why didn't they just have Dawson and Jolie switch roles and have Dawson play a princess from Epiros? I wonder what the reaction would have been then?


Laughing Laughing Laughing I get your point. I thought I've seen resembling elements such as (yes) the snakes, the fiery attitudes, the lips, the stature, but didn't say that I agree with it!! Laughing Laughing
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Rachel25



Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Where did you read this?!! Did O.S. say that himself? Cause I thought so without reading any of his words!


Actually I read it in an interview with Dawson. I can't remember where right now but she relayed her first audition with Stone and the fact that he told her that she looked like Jolie and that would work with the Oedipal complex that he wanted to display in the film.

Now if we want to blame anything for the **** history at times in the movie it putting in the Oedipal complex, which got Dawson cast as Roxann, and had Stone put in a couple of scenes that we know and he knows were very unlikely to have taken place. But in the end Stone was going to tell the story he wanted to tell, not make a documentary I guess.
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Kevin
Site Admin


Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 630
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was in Hello magazine.

I quote a section of the interview with Rosario Dawson talking about a conversation with Oliver Stone...
Quote:
He said, 'On camera you look a lot like Angelina, has anyone ever said that to you?' And I said 'Erm, well, what colour is my skin? I don't care how much she tans...' But he laughed and explained that he was thinking of asking her to be Alexander's mother. We me as his wife that could throw up a whole Freudian thing.
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emperor



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 24
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a quote from Kevin:

Alexander has been dead a long time so in Hollywood they ain't gonna find him. It's all about money and movies, which is why you are at this board, so regardless of who would play him in your mind they are going to go with an actor who will pull the crowds. After all - it's a movie - not the real deal - you're going to have to build a time machine if you want the real thing.
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyhow, art is art. It only states the point of view of the creator based on the means he had in his hands. Depending on the times and its trends, the popularity differs.

If I am not mistaken, ancient Greek tragedies or comedies in theatres, were being casted only with male figures... Can you imagine O.S. suddenly casting a woman to play a woman role at those times? What would he cause then?!!!
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Rachel25



Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, thank you Kevin! You have a way better memory then me aparantly.

You have an interestin observation. About art. The only thing is that it all gets confused by the fine line between art and mass media. Sometimes something is both, but you notice when your talking about one or the other the expectation can sound very different.
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course! It wouldn't be interesting if all of us had the same expectations of the movie/art. But whatever the art form, the story it tells is subject to the creator. Overall, I think it was a brave move, a fairly good approach.
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Poppea



Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I finally saw it. I walked in there ready to see this godawful movie that was embarassing for all concerned.......and I saw a beautiful film. Flawed I grant you, but beautiful nonetheless. I am utterly at a loss to understand the level of criticism levelled at this film. The only explaination I can find is that a body of people wanted to take Stone down and they used this film to to it.

To paraphrase Ptolemy, if it was a failure then what a failure, and a failure that surpassed other men's successes.
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Ariobarzin



Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:22 pm    Post subject: I agree Reply with quote

Dear Octavia,

I agree with you and share your frustrations and anger with regards to this movie.
As you said, if Mr Stone wanted to make a fiction why choosing a real historical character?
I believe him and his advisors have their own agenda (see my thread).
I was shocked to read the "historian" who advised him replying to the critics about inaccuracies and historical errors something like: " we can not give an image too far from what (western) people expect to see (regarding Asian nations in general and Persians in particular)"!!

With regards to Roxana, I have to say that she was from Bactriane which was at that time a Persian Satrapy (province). Bactrians’ spoke a language close to Persian. Their descendents are the actual Tadjiks, who have a language very close to today’s IRAN official language (modern Persian or Parsi). Ironically, the name Roxana is a Greek modification of the original "Roshanak" which means a "light coloured" or "bright coloured" girl, it also means "small shining star"! So why using an Afro-American to represent her? This is a mystery indeed. I am not at all racist but frankly preferred to see a Tadjik or Iranian actress playing that role. Or at least someone physically matching the historical Roshanak (Roxana).
In any case portraying her as a salvage barbaric woman was too much for me, when in reality she should have been a delicate, educated girl from a noble family....
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Goldsnail



Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 77

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poppea wrote:
Well I finally saw it. I walked in there ready to see this godawful movie that was embarassing for all concerned.......and I saw a beautiful film. Flawed I grant you, but beautiful nonetheless. I am utterly at a loss to understand the level of criticism levelled at this film. The only explaination I can find is that a body of people wanted to take Stone down and they used this film to to it.

To paraphrase Ptolemy, if it was a failure then what a failure, and a failure that surpassed other men's successes.


Ah, good, I was beginning to think I'm alone here...
I do understand many points of criticism that have been made. I just don't think the mistakes are that bad, at least not bad enough to spoil the movie for me. I don't understands the complaints about Stone not shedding light on Alexander's motivation. The movie I saw depicted a man driven, among other things, by a huge mother-complex and a lot, lot, lot of superstition, and also a decent amount of curiosity and the wish to prove himself. What more motivation could be done in a movie?
There are weak bits, of course, but there are also some very strong scenes (I liked the murder of Kleitos, very emotional scene). I can't see why people say that Stone idolizes Alexander when he does show several of his misjudgments and bad deeds. To me the movie was rather well-balanced considering it's a big budged Hollywood-type movie.
I thought the good-bad axis on Gladiator was a lot more disgusting.
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: I agree Reply with quote

Ariobarzin wrote:
IRAN official language (modern Persian or Parsi).
Question: Is "Parsi" a very fast spoken language?
Cause we have a saying here: You speak English (for example) parsi!!! And we are using this expression to state that the person speaks a foreign language fluently. In other words fluently=parsi!! Only we pronounce it as PHarsi!!
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