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Historical Incorrect: PERSIAN ANGLE!
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Proud_Persian



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
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Location: PERSIAN GULF

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:10 pm    Post subject: Historical Incorrect: PERSIAN ANGLE! Reply with quote

I have not seen the movie yet, but from what i have seen in the previews i have to say that it is very upsetting to see how one can change HISTORY as they please!

There are several things in the movie that are historically wrong and incorrect, and if they dont admit to the faults they will be successful in changing history!

1. We all know Alexander the great was a very rough and bully like man, living all his life in violence! And we all also know that the first declaration of HUMAN RIGHTS was by Cyrus the Great during the Achaemenid Period! Now heres the shocking part.... WE Iranians have never had slaves! Never this was proven on the Cyrus Cylinder and there have been archiological findings that prove that the workers were paid in food and goods (a kind of reciept if u will)! So why is it that in the movie alexander claims he wants to conquer Persia to free the slaves? Thats just wrong! Seeing we never had any!

2. Why was Alexanders Persian wife, black? Roxana was a dancer, and more importantly Persian... thus shes white! Iranians are Aryans, now we might have afew people with a slight dark skin! But in the movie they have her being played by a Black woman (no offence to black woman), but its just wrong. Its like having a black woman play Queen Elizabeth in a movie!

3. When Alexander enter Perspolis, the Iranian people are bowing down to him. There is no evidance of that. Why would the Iranian people welcome an Invader who has captured there empire!

4. Alexander BURNS PERSPOLIS. But in the movie i hear that there is no indication that he does that! Alexander was in a drunken state when he orders his army to burn Perspolis to the ground. And this was after the war, which would make him insane and a hypocrate... since there was no need to burn it down, the war was over, he had capture the Persian Empire. But he still did not want to see the magnifisant city Perspolis alive. But here's another shocking bit... why didnt they show this in the movie? Is it because if they did people would realize what a barbaric person Alexander really was!

These facts are all written down in history, be it in Persian History books, Greek, English, Jewish, etc! Now when u are making a historical movie, u have to be non-biest, thus u have to read all sides of the story and then making ur judgement... and being truthful!

Now for the past 25years the Islamic Republic has been in power in Iran, and everyone has been taking advantage from every aspect of Iran. Thus thats why you dont hear IRANIAN LAWERS filing charges against the movie like the Greeks did. But i hope that u will learn and understand, and be true to urself and others.


P.s. The only thing Oliver Stone can do is admit that this is not a historically accurate movie and its more fiction than reality! And that he lists all the historical flaws, be it in the media, DVD, etc!
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
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Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Historical Incorrect: PERSIAN ANGLE! Reply with quote

Proud_Persian wrote:
So why is it that in the movie alexander claims he wants to conquer Persia to free the slaves? Thats just wrong! Seeing we never had any!
It doesn't.

Quote:
2. Why was Alexanders Persian wife, black? Roxana was a dancer, and more importantly Persian... thus shes white! Iranians are Aryans, now we might have afew people with a slight dark skin! But in the movie they have her being played by a Black woman (no offence to black woman), but its just wrong. Its like having a black woman play Queen Elizabeth in a movie!
My guess would be that they wanted to find an actress looking a little like Angelina (with obvious differences) in order to show the oedipus complex of Alexander.

Quote:
3. When Alexander enter Perspolis, the Iranian people are bowing down to him. There is no evidance of that. Why would the Iranian people welcome an Invader who has captured there empire!
I don't think they bow.

Quote:
4. Alexander BURNS PERSPOLIS. But in the movie i hear that there is no indication that he does that! Alexander was in a drunken state when he orders his army to burn Perspolis to the ground. And this was after the war, which would make him insane and a hypocrate... since there was no need to burn it down, the war was over, he had capture the Persian Empire. But he still did not want to see the magnifisant city Perspolis alive. But here's another shocking bit... why didnt they show this in the movie? Is it because if they did people would realize what a barbaric person Alexander really was!
It doesn't deal with every single step of Alexanders. It would have been a 10 hour movie otherwise.

Quote:
These facts are all written down in history, be it in Persian History books, Greek, English, Jewish, etc! Now when u are making a historical movie, u have to be non-biest, thus u have to read all sides of the story and then making ur judgement... and being truthful!

Now for the past 25years the Islamic Republic has been in power in Iran, and everyone has been taking advantage from every aspect of Iran. Thus thats why you dont hear IRANIAN LAWERS filing charges against the movie like the Greeks did. But i hope that u will learn and understand, and be true to urself and others.

P.s. The only thing Oliver Stone can do is admit that this is not a historically accurate movie and its more fiction than reality! And that he lists all the historical flaws, be it in the media, DVD, etc!
You'd better wait till you see it.
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lock



Joined: 12 Sep 2004
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They showed babylon in the movie and not the other city.
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smith



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen the movie, and if I were Persian I would not have been happy. I recommend that if you are Persian avoid watching the movie it will just make you angry and sends you the wrong message. I recently watched the 1956 version of the Alexander movie. With all the political correctness of today’s world I expected the new movie to have less prejudice than the older version but surprisingly it had more. I think we should not be surprised that “historical” movies are reflecting the politics of the time they are made, and not necessarily the historical period they cover.
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Iranian_88



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[color=green]I've seen the movie and likes it alot, although it is not all true, so I was glad someone posted something about it, and it even feels better that you Proud Persian share my Aryan blood.

Quote:
I have seen the movie, and if I were Persian I would not have been happy. I recommend that if you are Persian avoid watching the movie it will just make you angry and sends you the wrong message.


I don't think any Iranian would be mad at a movie, so there is no reason to avoid it. We are sure of our own history. I say watch it, everyone.



Quote:
2. Why was Alexanders Persian wife, black? Roxana was a dancer, and more importantly Persian... thus shes white! Iranians are Aryans, now we might have afew people with a slight dark skin! But in the movie they have her being played by a Black woman (no offence to black woman), but its just wrong. Its like having a black woman play Queen Elizabeth in a movie!


My guess would be that they wanted to find an actress looking a little like Angelina (with obvious differences) in order to show the oedipus complex of Alexander.



Like proud Persian said, we are Aryans, we've dark hair and white skin, true Aryans that is, and picking someone that looks a little like Angelina doesn't make sense b'cuz she was playing a greek woman and Roxana was Persian.
The only thing I can think about is that she was probably not originaly Iranian, maybe she was just belonged to one of those countries that Persia took over.




Quote:
3. When Alexander enter Perspolis, the Iranian people are bowing down to him. There is no evidance of that. Why would the Iranian people welcome an Invader who has captured there empire!


I don't think they bow.


I'm not sure about that b'cuz I think it was the people of Babylon that were cheering him, not Perspolis.. God, do you want me to kill ma self?! Shocked

Quote:
4. Alexander BURNS PERSPOLIS. But in the movie i hear that there is no indication that he does that! Alexander was in a drunken state when he orders his army to burn Perspolis to the ground. And this was after the war, which would make him insane and a hypocrate... since there was no need to burn it down, the war was over, he had capture the Persian Empire. But he still did not want to see the magnifisant city Perspolis alive. But here's another shocking bit... why didnt they show this in the movie? Is it because if they did people would realize what a barbaric person Alexander really was!


It doesn't deal with every single step of Alexanders. It would have been a 10 hour movie otherwise.


I think that was an important point it should've been there in the movie, b'cuz not only did they call us Barbaric but they made Alexander seem like the God of love or something..


I think the movie has mistakes yes, but I would only blame history b'cuz it never gives you the exact truth.

There are alot of things we aren't sure of.

But what Proud Persian said is true, we had the most fair empire of all, thnx to Cyrus the Great.

Cyrus the Great achieves highest rank among all world leaders throughout the human history because of the following reasons:

· High moral and ethical values.

· Created Persian Empire based on ethics.

· Expanded the Ethical Empire to include all men who wish to join it.

· In the Bible (e.g., Ezra 1:1-4), Cyrus is famous for freeing the Jewish captives in Babylonia and allowing them to return to their homeland. His name occurs twenty two times in the Bible.

· Establishment of a constitution and Judicial system based on high moral and ethical values.

· Freedoms of religion, job, and place of residency; being advocate of freedom of choice 2500 years ago is very admirable. On the contrary Constantine the Great 800 years later did not have religious toleration (persecuted the Jews) and introduced laws that made certain occupations (e.g., butchers, bakers) hereditary.

· Were it not for Cyrus, therefore, it seems at least possible that the Jewish people would have died out as a separate group in the fifth century BC

· Created Gold and Silver coins for trading.

· Ordered all Governors to treat the people as their own children, and no one could be executed for a first time crime.

· Slavery was not allowed. The Old Persian culture did not accept the concept of slavery. This is a good indication of a great ethical culture; we can admire this especially when we see some 250 years later Aristotle's ideas of slavery as natural law. This idea of Aristotle was used in the Roman Empire and after that in the British Empire as natural law.

· Despite the fact that Cyrus the Great was a genius he would consult with other leaders from different ethnic background to come up with a better solution for their problems.

· Cyrus was clearly a leader of immense military ability, and an outstanding statesman.

· Cyrus the Great had a Major influence on the thinking of Aristotle and Alexander the Great, and the Roman Empire form of government.

· He was exceptionally tolerant of local religions and local customs.

· He was moderate and respectful toward his defeated opponents, and if they were popular leaders among their people let them continue with their positions.

But then again an empire rises and falls, this is history.
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Iranian_88



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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Location: Bahrain-Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To understand the greatness of Cyrus relative to his time (2500 years ago) we should compare him with Alexander The Great whom he came to power 250 years after Cyrus. Alexander had been brought up to believe that Greek culture represented the only true civilization, and that all of the non-Greek peoples were barbarians. Such, of course, was the prevailing view throughout the Greek world, and even Aristotle had shared it. When Alexander conquered the Persian capital Persepolis; he destroyed Persepolis (the ruin exists today). You can see the difference of these two leaders -- one conquers and allows freedom, the other conquers and destroys.
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...picking someone that looks a little like Angelina doesn't make sense b'cuz she was playing a greek woman and Roxana was Persian.
The only thing I can think about is that she was probably not originaly Iranian, maybe she was just belonged to one of those countries that Persia took over.
You probably didn't understand my thought. I have met Iranians and yes, I agree, they don't look anything close to Dawson. The ones I met had skin as white as milk and dark hair. What I meant was that for Oliver Stone to show Alexanders haunting by his mother (Jolie) he had to find someone that looks like Jolie (since Jolie was the one to play his mother). A visual connetion with a visual difference and not necessarily realistic features. By the way "Statira" (was it her the princess that spoke to Hephestion thinking he was Alexander?) was very close to Iranian looking woman. Wouldn't you say? So, it might be what you say about the different tribes. But still...
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Iranian_88



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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Location: Bahrain-Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess after all you don't know what is going on in a directors mind lol.. You might be right.


Statira did look Iranian enough, although it was funny, she looked her father's age Wink
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 324
Location: Thessaloniki, Macedonia, Greece, Europe, Earth

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
she looked her father's age
Laughing And Olympias (Jolie) looked the age of her son!!!! ...pfff, details! LaughingLaughing
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iranian_88 wrote:
To understand the greatness of Cyrus relative to his time (2500 years ago) we should compare him with Alexander The Great whom he came to power 250 years after Cyrus. Alexander had been brought up to believe that Greek culture represented the only true civilization, and that all of the non-Greek peoples were barbarians. Such, of course, was the prevailing view throughout the Greek world, and even Aristotle had shared it. When Alexander conquered the Persian capital Persepolis; he destroyed Persepolis (the ruin exists today). You can see the difference of these two leaders -- one conquers and allows freedom, the other conquers and destroys.


greeks and romans did not think that way of all cultures.the greeks and most romans wrote that the africans south of egypt were the most civilized folks on earth.the greeks and roman writes wrote this when they visited nubia and axum.
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Iranian_88



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The movie shows it...

Don't know, but I think every empire thought that it's the greatest and should be the one in charge of everything.

That was just to show how Cyrus chose to rule and how Alexander wanted it.
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eryan



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lala wrote:
Proud_Persian wrote:
So why is it that in the movie alexander claims he wants to conquer Persia to free the slaves? Thats just wrong! Seeing we never had any!
It doesn't.



YES it does. This is the word that Alexander tells Hephaestion in the movie when they are in Babylonia.

Alexander says: But we have freed them Hephaestion from the Persian who have done everyone of them to slaves. (Its sounds like that)
Alexander says: To free the people of the world………
Alexander says: This people want, need changes.

My comment: I mean this is sad, especially when there is a war right now in Iraq. A blonde guy comes to Babylonia and everybody invite him by throwing flower on him, like he is a saver or something. And then he tells a lot of **** such as freedom. The only thing that was missing was Alexander with an American flag on his hand.

Alexander says: Look at those we have concurred, the leave there dead unburied, smash there enemy skulls and drinking his dust. They made it in public. What can the think or seeing what is right when none can read.

My comment: I don’t know what he talking about. The most of the books that were used in the library in Alexandria were stolen from the libraries around the Persia. And the first library in the world was in Assyria (The Library of Nineveh) 600 BC a Persian province during the Alexander. And the Indo-European language comes from the central Asia, which means also Latin. The writing was invented in Middle East 5000 BC. So they could read. Here is tomb of Cyrus the great 529BC.



So that means that the buried there dead and somtimes they cremated there dead. And if they didn’t, who cares. Why speak about such insignificant thing like that. What are he gone prove with this movie, that Greek was better than Persian.

And the comment of that they smash there enemy skulls and drinking there dust. What the **** is that suppose to mean. I suppose that the Greek did not do so with there enemies.

Proud_Persian wrote:
Thus thats why you dont hear IRANIAN LAWERS filing charges against the movie like the Greeks did.


Do you know that the Greek lawyers dropped down there charges against Oliver Stone after having seen the movie. There explanation was that the homosexual scenes was not so horrible that they were first expected to be. I don’t think that was the reason, instead I think they come to the decision that every parts in the movie was in a Greek favour.

PS. The Persian Cuneiform that shows in the beginning of the movie did the movie team know what those means.
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Lala



Joined: 22 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eryan wrote:
Lala wrote:
Proud_Persian wrote:
So why is it that in the movie alexander claims he wants to conquer Persia to free the slaves? Thats just wrong! Seeing we never had any!
It doesn't.



YES it does. This is the word that Alexander tells Hephaestion in the movie when they are in Babylonia.

Alexander says: But we have freed them Hephaestion from the Persian who have done everyone of them to slaves. (Its sounds like that)
Alexander says: To free the people of the world………
Alexander says: This people want, need changes.
well...I would like to think they meant the Greek mersenaries...Yes they were paid to go against their own kind...isn't that a form of slavery?... In any case, I don't think Alexander himself thought of Persians as barbarians (when he met them). What's left of his myth over here is that he was respectful to them and in some places (like in Egypt) they did welcome him as a God. But then again, Egyptians never thought of invading Hellas like the Persians did many times before Alexander's time.
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manos



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 68
Location: london

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iranian you may be right, i would be upset in your position but this happens in movies. Hollywood has the money, Hollywood makes the blockbuster movies. Unfair but this is life. If you have money you can present Persians as tyrans and and highlight that Alexander was ***, Russians are bad from the army to the box athlets, Greeks are bad and attack to Trojans (also Greeks) without mercy, Americans save the world from Aliens, English conquestors are idiots (in the Patriot , Pirates of Carribean), in the Japanese war between the national army and shamurai it was a main hero from America, Americans also didn't lose a single battle in Vietnam etc...
By the way, Does your number 88 mean hh?
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Iranian_88



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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Location: Bahrain-Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well yea I guess you're right, but they shouldn't mess with history just to make some nation happy and piss the other off for current political problems, know what I mean?

My 88 is just a lucky number I go by Wink
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